Rusty Spade anchor

[KAM]

Has anyone found a solution to this. The galvanising is very poor quality and the supplier has not replied to my emails. Very poor for such an expensive item. Presumably you have to melt out the lead and replace after regalvanising.

 

[Ian_Edwards]

I'd also be intered in hearing a solution, the galvanising on my Spade anchor is also in very poor condition after 4 years.

 

[aowen]

Not a solution but I have used a cold galvanising spray to tidy mine up. However agree that the galvanising is very poor for such an expensive item.

 

[Neeves]

Melting lead is not very difficult and it will need to be removed. You also need to check how much is removed, so you add back the same amount. Adding molten lead back into the 'cup' is not difficult - I have used old steel saucepans, welding gloves and a camping stove (a blow torch is also a handy extra). It will be worth preheating the fluke before you cast. I'd do it outdoors, it will ensure you do not breath any fumes.

The hollow shank is an issue - I think when galvanised originally the shank has an air hole at the shackle end, to allow the air out when it is dipped - you obviously need to get the inside of the shank galvanised as well as (if not better) than the outside - because you cannot see the inside and you do not want it corroding from the inside out.

Apart from these 2 issues its not more difficult than any other anchor.

Hopefully MM5AHO aka Geoff will comment - he is the best person from whom to solicit advise (and might even galvanise for you, at a small cost). He is based in Falkirk (and I think they have a gal plant in Inverness?). In his absence a PM, to him, would be appropriate.

He might not be able to tell you how to repaint the fluke face yellow

Jonathan

edit: It would be interesting to know how long the gal lasted on your various anchors (though you also need to give an isea on usage). Poor galvanising of expensive anchors (or expensive chain) is not limited to Spade, other expensive anchors also have had poor galvanising - so they will not be smirking. close edit

 

[Scubadoo]

Not a solution but I have used a cold galvanising spray to tidy mine up. However agree that the galvanising is very poor for such an expensive item.

I do the same, but first treat with kurust and then the galvanising spray.

 

[KAM]

I use the boat 6 months. Anchors are stored in an anchor locker when not in use and ashore in a garage during the winter. I anchor most nights when the boat is in service so about 60 deployments a year. I have an original Bruce which must be 20 years old and the edges of the flukes are just showing signs of rust now. Delta has no sign of rust and has been in use about 5 years. Brittany anchor made in 1978 still no rust. Griff (cqr type) was regalvinised once in 25 years with the same useage every year. I am still using a brittany kedge from 1978 which has original galvanising and still no sign of rust. Obviously the sharp edged anchors fare less well but the Spade has been very dissapointing for such an expensive anchor.

 

[john_q]

To the OP

Have you tried contacting these people in the attached link? , I believe they are the world wide distributors

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f141/spade-anchor-157988.html

 

[KAM]

Seems to be a lot of bullshit from spade on that link. Are you saying spade anchor USA are the worldwide distributors.

 

[Neeves]

If its any consolation.

Most people who regalvanise their chain make the comment that the second galvanising looks better and has a better longevity than the original. Its a bit, very, subjective but consistent. It appears to be relatively cheap if you can have your anchor included in a batch with others though undoubtedly a hassle to arrange (especially if you are melting lead etc) - but once completed it should be better than new - except for the yellow paint work.

If it were a normal anchor then a very common solution it to use regularly and paint at the end of the season. If you go round Med marinas in the winter when yachts are laid up you will find a host of painted anchors lying with their chain on pallets. I actually would not recommend this for a Spade as if there is poor gal on the outside there might be poor gal inside the shank and you might not notice till its too late. If the lack of galvanising is an issue I'd deal with it by regalvanising sooner rather than later.

If the anchor is relatively new I'd be taking the deficiency up with SeaTech and Fun, who are the license holders or hold manufacturing rights, and/or the outlet from where it was bought.

Jonathan

 

[KAM]

What amazes me is that a company purporting to produce a top of the range anchor skimp on relatively lowcost of galvanising and then don't even show any interest in sorting it out. The damage to their sales must be enormous. I was never sure if the yellow paint had any function most of it came off the first week I used it.

 

[MM5AHO]

I don't really understand how thin galvanizing is done. I've been in this galvanizing business for 21 years, and with some prior experience of it before that. If we could find a way to reduce the thickness of galvanizing, we'd be keen to do so, as we exceed the ISO standard thickness by typically 30%. Most galvanizers have that same issue. Zinc costs a lot, about a third of the total cost of galvanizing, so a saving would be worth it.
So how do OEMs get a thin coating??

As for lead tips. Lead melts at a lower temperature than zinc, and is soluble in zinc to about 1-2%. Most galvanizing kettles have lead in them. Lead and zinc come from the same mine, same ores, and refineries have to do cleaver things to keep them apart. Then galvanizers mix them together, with most galvanizers running about 0.5 to 1.0% lead in their zinc. Having some lead in the tip of the anchor isn't going to worry most galvanizers as far as the immersion in zinc goes, but it does present another problem.
Galvanizing isn't just a coating caused by dipping steel in zinc. Its an alloying reaction, that only happens with chemically clean steel. So the lead in the tip would prevent the chemical cleaning that must happen before dipping in zinc. I suggest that the lead be melted out first, and saved. Replacing the lead after galvanizing would be pretty easy, as described earlier in this thread. Not much more difficult than making fishing sinkers at home.
As for the hollow shank. I hadn't realized that Spade has a hollow shank?
Any hollow section of steel must be galvanized inside and out. There must be a way for the cleaning fluids (normally hydrochloric acid) to get in and clean it inside, and then out again. Similarly for zinc a way in and out. And a way for air to escape.
Galvanizers can't easily galvanize hollow items on the outside only. The reason is the air makes the steel buoyant. Steel is only a little higher density than zinc, so air inside reduces the apparent buoyancy and causes flotation. If it floats on the zinc, it won't galvanize.

I note that Spade say they provide a "cold galvanizing" system for users, with the anchor. Actually there's no such thing as "cold galvanizing". There's zinc rich paint. Maybe they mean that. Its sometimes called "cold galvanizing". Actually its paint with zinc particles in it. Its better than paint without zinc dust in it, but nowhere near as good as hot dip galvanizing. One reason is that the particles are not electrically connected to each other, but bound in the resin of the paint. That means they cant act galvanicaly. It would be a bit like a boat anode that's not bonded. A continuous layer of zinc coating is bonded though, and does act as an anode to the steel its on.

 

[Neeves]

Geoff,

It might be that owners are misinterpreting the early onset of corrosion to a thin coating but the corrosion is not due to a thin coating but poor surface preparation in the first place?

But a Spade shank is a hollow section in a triangular box cross section, it is a similar profile to a Delta shank - except it is curved instead of angular. It must have had a hole at the end, even if only to allow air to escape - but drilling a hole at the end would seem to weaken the shank at a critical point (where the shackle would attach). It is possible the end of the shank, where the 3 plates come together is effectively solid and maybe the hole was part way along the shank. It could easily be measured by pushing a wire up the shank (drill where the wire stops?). Any suggestions?? - or would whoever is chosen to do the regal be the best people to ask?

To me the lead is a minor issue - galvanising the shank is the critical issue as if it cannot be completed then internal corrosion would be a worry.

It does appear a bad investment if the anchor cannot be sensibly regalvanised.

Jonathan

 

[BrianH]

In 2008 I ordered an original NZ-produced, 15kg Rocna anchor from the only European distributor at that time, in Holland. After one year of exposure, 13 day's of usage in 7 different anchorages, the anchor had significant rust spots on the upper stock where the galvanising had gone, it has been broken away by having been knocked by the cheeks of the bow roller as it was being retrieved by the anchor winch - the galvanising was simply chipped off exposing the fresh steel with no bonding of zinc to steel whatsoever.

After some pressure the company agreed to cover the cost of re-galvanising, which was trivial, circa €20. Of course, the original NZ company has no connection to the present Canadian manufacturer (AFAIK).

 

[KAM]

The spade end of the triangular shank is not closed off so the triangular section is open at this point. Probing in indicates that it appears to be closed off 50 mm in. I doubt if there would have been any attempt to ensure that the inside of the shank was galvanised. It seems to be sealed and certainly never gets water inside but the lower open end is another weak point as it gets filled with crud which then helps corrode the area where the spade to shank bolt fits. I say bolt but as supplied it was fitted with a set screw and nyloc nut. The set screw would have produced a nice sawing action on the joint. I replaced this with a plain shank bolt drilled for a nut and split pin. I pointed out to the supplier that this was not very good but they did not seen very interested. I think it would have to be re-galvanised without attempting to open up the inside of the shank would this be possible. I suppose at least it's possible to get the spade section re-galvanised separately. I think the manufacturer should be answering these questions if they have any interest in this product. Perhaps its too much to hope that they could be persuaded to publish a manufacturer approved repair procedure.

 

[Neeves]

Interesting!

I have an alloy Spade so the issue of galvanising simply does not arise.

But this is all very odd.

My understanding is you cannot galvanise a sealed hollow item, the air inside expands and blows the item apart (and showers the workspace with molten zinc - and this is a serious issue. But in any event the item would float, unless held down, in the molten zinc. If the item is galvanised and then sealed it would need an opening at both ends, or the gal would not coat the interior (though if its sealed you do not need to coat the interior anyway). If the shank is sealed and hollow it is then buoyant, relatively, and will help the anchor self right, though I could not hazard how much the buoyancy might enhance self righting. (But Ultra claim their hollow shank does help self righting - this might simply be marketing hype or a real benefit, don't know)

The alloy and stainless shanks appear to be hollow for at least half their length (so if the narrow/thin part is buoyant - its pretty insignificant).

Might you shank simply be blocked with more 'crud'?

Jonathan

 

[PTB]

Interesting!

(The alloy and stainless shanks appear to be hollow for at least half their length (so if the narrow/thin part is buoyant - its pretty insignificant).
Might you shank simply be blocked with more 'crud'?)

Yep the S100 galv model is certainly hollow for half the shank length as well. Wondered about filling it with epoxy while anchor is new or would that really scupper a regalvanise in the future. Phil

 

[drakes drum]

I use the boat 6 months. Anchors are stored in an anchor locker when not in use and ashore in a garage during the winter. I anchor most nights when the boat is in service so about 60 deployments a year. I have an original Bruce which must be 20 years old and the edges of the flukes are just showing signs of rust now. Delta has no sign of rust and has been in use about 5 years. Brittany anchor made in 1978 still no rust. Griff (cqr type) was regalvinised once in 25 years with the same useage every year. I am still using a brittany kedge from 1978 which has original galvanising and still no sign of rust. Obviously the sharp edged anchors fare less well but the Spade has been very dissapointing for such an expensive anchor.

Do you think that you just might have a "thing" about anchors?

By the way, one answer to rust is to buy a Fortress.

 

[charles_reed]

Melting lead is not very difficult and it will need to be removed. You also need to check how much is removed, so you add back the same amount. Adding molten lead back into the 'cup' is not difficult - I have used old steel saucepans, welding gloves and a camping stove (a blow torch is also a handy extra). It will be worth preheating the fluke before you cast. I'd do it outdoors, it will ensure you do not breath any fumes.

The hollow shank is an issue - I think when galvanised originally the shank has an air hole at the shackle end, to allow the air out when it is dipped - you obviously need to get the inside of the shank galvanised as well as (if not better) than the outside - because you cannot see the inside and you do not want it corroding from the inside out.

Apart from these 2 issues its not more difficult than any other anchor.

Hopefully MM5AHO aka Geoff will comment - he is the best person from whom to solicit advise (and might even galvanise for you, at a small cost). He is based in Falkirk (and I think they have a gal plant in Inverness?). In his absence a PM, to him, would be appropriate.

He might not be able to tell you how to repaint the fluke face yellow

Jonathan

edit: It would be interesting to know how long the gal lasted on your various anchors (though you also need to give an isea on usage). Poor galvanising of expensive anchors (or expensive chain) is not limited to Spade, other expensive anchors also have had poor galvanising - so they will not be smirking. close edit

One of the main reasons for buying the Mantus was it's lack of a lead weight (like the CQR its MS) and the removable shank. After a first year of anchoring it's showing no sign of wear on its galvanising (more than the CQR)
My experience with the CQR in regular use was that it needed point sharpening and re-galvanising every 5-7 years (500 -1000 deployments). The Delta galvanising is inferior to CQR, but I'd expect any anchor to lose galvanising on its flukes - such wear shows its working.
The shank on an anchor should never need re-galvanising. A design error by those with a welded shank?
I would second the ease of melting and pouring lead - I used a redundant le Creuset cast pan on a gas stove.
Lead (as the good people of Flint are finding the hard way) is a cumulative neurotoxin and melting produces lots of fumes.
I found lots of galvanisers locally in the W Midlands, but none were interested in a 25lb CQR and 50m of chain - however I was able to add my bits to a client's 3 tonne a month load.

 

[KAM]

Do you think that you just might have a "thing" about anchors?

By the way, one answer to rust is to buy a Fortress.

Of course. If you saw some of the places I have anchored you would understand why.

 

[KAM]

I don't really understand how thin galvanizing is done. I've been in this galvanizing business for 21 years, and with some prior experience of it before that. If we could find a way to reduce the thickness of galvanizing, we'd be keen to do so, as we exceed the ISO standard thickness by typically 30%. Most galvanizers have that same issue. Zinc costs a lot, about a third of the total cost of galvanizing, so a saving would be worth it.
So how do OEMs get a thin coating??

As for lead tips. Lead melts at a lower temperature than zinc, and is soluble in zinc to about 1-2%. Most galvanizing kettles have lead in them. Lead and zinc come from the same mine, same ores, and refineries have to do cleaver things to keep them apart. Then galvanizers mix them together, with most galvanizers running about 0.5 to 1.0% lead in their zinc. Having some lead in the tip of the anchor isn't going to worry most galvanizers as far as the immersion in zinc goes, but it does present another problem.
Galvanizing isn't just a coating caused by dipping steel in zinc. Its an alloying reaction, that only happens with chemically clean steel. So the lead in the tip would prevent the chemical cleaning that must happen before dipping in zinc. I suggest that the lead be melted out first, and saved. Replacing the lead after galvanizing would be pretty easy, as described earlier in this thread. Not much more difficult than making fishing sinkers at home.
As for the hollow shank. I hadn't realized that Spade has a hollow shank?
Any hollow section of steel must be galvanized inside and out. There must be a way for the cleaning fluids (normally hydrochloric acid) to get in and clean it inside, and then out again. Similarly for zinc a way in and out. And a way for air to escape.
Galvanizers can't easily galvanize hollow items on the outside only. The reason is the air makes the steel buoyant. Steel is only a little higher density than zinc, so air inside reduces the apparent buoyancy and causes flotation. If it floats on the zinc, it won't galvanize.

I note that Spade say they provide a "cold galvanizing" system for users, with the anchor. Actually there's no such thing as "cold galvanizing". There's zinc rich paint. Maybe they mean that. Its sometimes called "cold galvanizing". Actually its paint with zinc particles in it. Its better than paint without zinc dust in it, but nowhere near as good as hot dip galvanizing. One reason is that the particles are not electrically connected to each other, but bound in the resin of the paint. That means they cant act galvanicaly. It would be a bit like a boat anode that's not bonded. A continuous layer of zinc coating is bonded though, and does act as an anode to the steel its on.

Thanks for the useful information. After a good poke about it looks as if the shank is open at the spade end but full of sand and mud so I think it would need cleaning out in some way. Do you think a galvaniser would tackle it if it is only open at one end. I would be worried about the old zinc being stripped off but the new zinc not reaching right to the apex. Looks as if the spade itself would not be a problem. Just another question I have always wondered if its possible to repair galvanising in a similar way to solder tinning. I tried it once but could not get enough heat in.