Rust on newly replaced standing rigging

mnrkks said:
I think here there is a bad intention from the rigger as well, because any qualified person who does rigging should know that this is not normal. Seeing this and saying everything is perfect is a very bad intention. Of course there will be consequences of this behaviour… I am not sharing his details now, but just for now…
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Just a note of caution, I’ve seen wire like this before elsewhere and iirc it has been discussed on here before. It doesn’t necessarily mean it will break.
Spain? Best of luck with lawyers there. Weigh up what professional advice will cost to get a definitive answer for further action, will it cost the same as biting the bullet and redoing? Maybe send pix to your insurance and ask them what they think about continuing cover with it being left as is?
Similar stuff here All the Stainless Wire Rigging is Rusting on One Strand? - Cruisers & Sailing Forums
 
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mnrkks said:
I think here there is a bad intention from the rigger as well, because any qualified person who does rigging should know that this is not normal. Seeing this and saying everything is perfect is a very bad intention. Of course there will be consequences of this behaviour… I am not sharing his details now, but just for now…
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Be careful, but Spain is actually better in this kind of dispute. If you can't come to an agreement, ask for the "hoja de reclamaciones", it might be best to get a gestor or even a lawyer to help fill it out.
There's a formal process for consumer arbitration in Spain and that's the first step.
 
I don’t know where this wire was made but I’ve had a few “stainless” boat parts from AliExpress and the like that are rusting away happily on my boat now.
 
Fred , You are insinuating that the stainless wire was made in China.
That could be the case, but to think that quality control cannot slip in an "advanced" country is a furphy.
Look at the recent track record of Boeing or Volkswagen

gary
 
garymalmgren said:
Fred , You are insinuating that the stainless wire was made in China.
That could be the case, but to think that quality control cannot slip in an "advanced" country is a furphy.
Look at the recent track record of Boeing or Volkswagen

gary
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Fair point Gary, I guess what I’m getting at is that price seems to be the driving factor in much manufacturing today.
 
mnrkks said:
Hello Everyone,

I’m looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this issue. I recently replaced the standing rigging on my 33-foot sailboat, and after just six months, six out of the eight wires are showing rust in a candy-stripe pattern. The rigging company that performed the replacement mentioned using 'KOS' brand wires and Bluewave terminals. Interestingly, the terminals show no rust, but some of the wires are visibly affected.

The rusting started around the second month after the replacement. When I reported it, the company cleaned the wires using Ferronet, but the rust has since reappeared. Today, I conducted a test with a magnet and noticed that the rusted wires are magnetized, whereas the two wires without rust are not.

I’m seeking your feedback on this matter because I believe wires should last longer than six months in good condition. I’ve attached a few close-up photos for reference and would greatly appreciate your input. Thank you!
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Probably made from recycled Chinese stainless. If it is, the next thing that will happen is the wire strands start to fail where they leave the terminal. Alas the only cure is to replace the rigging and then take legal action from the rigging company for the costs. Small claim cases are easy to do online and cost 70 quid to file and another 70 if the case goes to the local court. Max claim was 10 grand last time I took action over an engine of mine that was dropped out of its cradle during a bottom end rebuild and not correctly repaired.
 
Lifeboater said:
Probably made from recycled Chinese stainless. If it is, the next thing that will happen is the wire strands start to fail where they leave the terminal. Alas the only cure is to replace the rigging and then take legal action from the rigging company for the costs. Small claim cases are easy to do online and cost 70 quid to file and another 70 if the case goes to the local court. Max claim was 10 grand last time I took action over an engine of mine that was dropped out of its cradle during a bottom end rebuild and not correctly repaired.
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"Probably" won't cut it in court. You have to demonstrate on the balance of probabilities that the material was not to specification and therefore not of merchantable quality and/or not fit for purpose. Pretty tall order. Also the OP is not in the UK so does not have access to our court system.

Always worth reading the whole thread before jumping in with a response that does not address the issues raised.
 
Tranona said:
"Probably" won't cut it in court. You have to demonstrate on the balance of probabilities that the material was not to specification and therefore not of merchantable quality and/or not fit for purpose. Pretty tall order. Also the OP is not in the UK so does not have access to our court system.

Always worth reading the whole thread before jumping in with a response that does not address the issues raised.
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Nevertheless, he's probably correct to say that the only cure is to replace the rigging.
 
Stainless steel which rusts and is magnetic within two months of installation is a pretty damming proof that on the balance of probabilities that the material is not fit for purpose. Whether it is from China or not is irrelevant.

IMHO the OP has a very strong case.
 
NormanS said:
Nevertheless, he's probably correct to say that the only cure is to replace the rigging.
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My response was about the nature of evidence required to be successful in court, not about what should be done if the wire seems to be defective.
 
The OP did not mention that the work was done in Spain until page 2 of the thread. Most of us will know little about the judicial system there and what standards of evidence would be required or how much it might cost to take action.
 
Biggles Wader said:
The OP did not mention that the work was done in Spain until page 2 of the thread. Most of us will know little about the judicial system there and what standards of evidence would be required or how much it might cost to take action.
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Post #42 is good advice.
 
It should be pretty obvious that the wire is not good quality, if its going rusty & is magnetic its likely 304 grade or lower. It will get worse & fail. Cleaning with any acid will only polish a turd. Only thing to do is replace it if you want peace of mind. As to getting the rigger to replace it thats another problem.
 
mnrkks said:
Hello Everyone,

I’m looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this issue. I recently replaced the standing rigging on my 33-foot sailboat, and after just six months, six out of the eight wires are showing rust in a candy-stripe pattern. The rigging company that performed the replacement mentioned using 'KOS' brand wires and Bluewave terminals. Interestingly, the terminals show no rust, but some of the wires are visibly affected.

The rusting started around the second month after the replacement. When I reported it, the company cleaned the wires using Ferronet, but the rust has since reappeared. Today, I conducted a test with a magnet and noticed that the rusted wires are magnetized, whereas the two wires without rust are not.

I’m seeking your feedback on this matter because I believe wires should last longer than six months in good condition. I’ve attached a few close-up photos for reference and would greatly appreciate your input. Thank you!
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What did the swage fittings look like ??? If it is not rusting near the swages I would not be overly concerned, but sure would keep a good eye out for cracks or broken strands.

You can take action against the company involved, and I would start by denouncing the company involved to the Guardia Civil and send a copy including pictures to the port captain. It will take around 6 months before you get invited for a hearing in the GC office. The port captains will be able to give a good opinion on weather you will win a legal case.
 
UPDATE: I contacted a customer rights organization in Spain, and they reached out to the rigging company. The company came and replaced 5 out of 8 cables that were showing signs of rust. Later, the company acknowledged that this wasn't normal and suggested there might have been contamination in the cable spool, which affected the wires.

Thanks to all of you for your help & feedback.
 
Lifeboater said:
What did the swage fittings look like ??? If it is not rusting near the swages I would not be overly concerned, but sure would keep a good eye out for cracks or broken strands.

You can take action against the company involved, and I would start by denouncing the company involved to the Guardia Civil and send a copy including pictures to the port captain. It will take around 6 months before you get invited for a hearing in the GC office. The port captains will be able to give a good opinion on weather you will win a legal case.
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It seems to take at least 6 months before the GC investigate a denouncement, even then the odds of any action being taken in this case are slim. Make sure you take good pictures, record and print all emails involved. What you say in a legal dispute is far lesss important that actual verifiable evidence like date marked pictures and company e mails.
Ask the port captain before taking actin of any type. as they can often sort out problems with local companies. I don't buy the story that the wire on the drum was contaminated, as very few chemicals can corrode stainless steel. Compounds that smell of vinegar can cause significant corrosion.

Did you see what the labels on the wire drum look like ??? Odds on if they were good and are marked with a major well respected company name, they have been forged and the wire is poor quality recycled far Eastern stainless that is often contaminated with other types of steel or metal. That wire corrodes and alas fails at the terminal edges after just a few months of heavy use. The fatigue life of bad stainless is very low, almost as bad is its ultimate shear strength.

I'm replacing all the rigging on a newly aquired long keel Macwester Rowan 22 at present, and I'm having a lot of difficulty finding top quality toggles and clevis pins. The ones fitted will be 50 years old in August, so there is no way I'm not going to bin them, but finding genuine top grade marked and documented stainless parts is not easy.
 
Keith 66 said:
It should be pretty obvious that the wire is not good quality, if its going rusty & is magnetic its likely 304 grade or lower. It will get worse & fail. Cleaning with any acid will only polish a turd. Only thing to do is replace it if you want peace of mind. As to getting the rigger to replace it thats another problem.
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Umm, Err, the only type of stainless that is magnetic is 318 or 400 series. 304 is only very, very slightly magnetic if contaminated. 316 should not be magnetic at all. 318 is not as magnetic as a carbon steel, but you can still lift up a 318 bolt with a standard magnetc. Not seen 400 series stainless used for ant rigging parts.
 
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