Rubbish Sails

The Elvstrom sails that came with my boat were knackered in 2 & 3 yrs. The Kemp laminate jib and dacron main have each lasted 8 & 9 years with much the same treatment and are still serviceable. I believe Elvstrom have a good reputation but we must have been palmed off with second-rate cloth.
 
Have Beneteau with Elvstrom Sails that after two years are showing no issues, yes the cloth is not as good as I could buy from a UK loft which I will when I change them. But I knew that when I bought the boat and accepted that.

Now as for spars well they are Zspars and identical to UK supplied spars, you'll be saying next that Ben, Jen, Bav get special sub standard, Spinlock, Harken, Lewmar and Raymarine parts made just for them.
 
Marsupial said:
"Now as for spars well they are Zspars and identical to UK supplied spars, you'll be saying next that Ben, Jen, Bav get special sub standard, Spinlock, Harken, Lewmar and Raymarine parts made just for them."

yes that about sums up the myths and legends about AWBs, you forgot to mention that Volvo and Yanmar go to great lengths to produce sub standard engines for these boats to!

LOL
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I know of cases where the "Boat Show Boat" had decent clutches/jammers but the customers who ordered boats on the basis of what they saw were very disappointed to find their delivered boat came with the next size down.
 
Westerly in the old days were renowned for supplying Ratsey & Lapthorn sails that were pretty well bulletproof and many were still around twenty years later. Bulletproof they might be, but they were also shapeless after a few months! We had friends who only ever bought Westerly boats and only ever from new, never used. We saw the sails and watched them each time replace them after a couple of years, on their last boat a Sea Hawk the difference with the new sails was amazing.

The lads at Crusader Sails once told me years ago that they didn't supply the original equipment market, because the prices were so low you could not provide a quality product. Yet at the time the so called top lofts like Hood, Elvstrom, Ratsey, North and others were all doing it. We had friends with Hood sails on a Sadler and others with them on a Moody, sure they gave the owners a bit of designer cred with the new boats but the sails were crap!

When we looked at buying a new Jeanneau 40 in 2000, we asked for it to be priced without sails so we could buy our own, but were told the price wouldn't change but could they put a holding tank in the spec as a replacement? Says exactly what they thought of the sails! We didn't buy in the end and went for an older used Jeanneau SL41 at half the price and twice as nice.
 
Talulah said:
I know of cases where the "Boat Show Boat" had decent clutches/jammers but the customers who ordered boats on the basis of what they saw were very disappointed to find their delivered boat came with the next size down.
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That was a common ploy, usually accompanied by a sign saying 'Boat as Shown, £X00,000' and somewhat more than the listed price. We looked several times at buying new rather than used boats and always the price lists, regardless of maker, showed available 'upgrades' to things like winch sizes, clutches, anchors, chains etc. Anyone buying new would be well advised to check the specs thoroughly. To just assume all will be as on the show boat is foolish, because often these boats are customer owned and on loan for the show prior to delivery and will have been specced for that customer.
 
Same problem

I've had exactly the same problem with our Dufour 40, I asked for the boat to be supplied without sail, but the price reduction offered was very small, so I went ahead, knowing that the production Elvstrom sails would only last 2 years or so. Sure enough the Genoa almost disintegrated in the second season, much of the stitching came undone and although the main looks OK, it stretches when the wind gets up and sets like an old shopping bag.

I replaced then with a set of laminates from Owen Sails, after 2 years these sail still look good, show no signs of wear and set well.
I’ve had laminate sails made by Elvstrom in the past and they have always lasted well and retained their shape for many years.

Big name sail makers don’t seem to realise how much they damage their reputation supplying “branded” poor quality sail with production boats, it really made me think twice when looking for a sail maker for my replacement sails.
 
The only delete that Jeanneau would not allow when I bought my boat.
Apparently the sails are less than £1000 for a 36ft.

I should have followed Talulahs excellent advice and stored the sails, but I bought different goodies instead.

The difference between old and new is very marked, and about 10 degrees of pointing ability.
 
Thanks for all your comments.

Clearly, getting rubbish sails is all part of the joyful experience of buying a new boat.
Sad really as it tarnishes the whole brand and together with the dreadful after sales service we had from Westways guarantees that I wouldn't buy a new Jeanneau again.
My sailmaker has now examined the "UV strip" on the Quantum badged genoa and has said that he thinks that it is a rather "open weaved" material .... and therefore insufficient to protect adequately against UV.

He suggests about £3600 for a new genoa and main.

Happy sailing!
 
flat1 said:
My sailmaker has now examined the "UV strip" on the Quantum badged genoa and has said that he thinks that it is a rather "open weaved" material .... and therefore insufficient to protect adequately against UV.

He suggests about £3600 for a new genoa and main.

Happy sailing!
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The "UV strip" on the Technique Voile original genoa on my Jeanneau 32 was actually just a second layer of ordinary Dacron. The sail behind it had deteriorated so much i assumed it had been wound inside out but maybe not.

Just ordered new from Kemps. Very helpful. They, Crusader and Jeckells were all within £50 for very similar offerings!
 
I'm horrified by the descriptions of shoddy sails here; it's a sailing boat after all, and these are supposedly the primary power source ?!

I must admit though, later factory versions of my boat type came with rather cheap & nasty sails, so one has to have a bit of experience to avoid such things.

I suspect Lakesailor has tongue firmly in cheek, but do think one needs to invest in new sails every 5 years or so at max', though when - as a penniless apprentice - racing a Scorpion dinghy with 15 year old sails, I certainly saw the difference compared to sponsored gits who thought 6 months use for a sail deemed it ancient !
 
Seajet said:
I suspect Lakesailor has tongue firmly in cheek, but do think one needs to invest in new sails every 5 years or so at max',
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Nice thought but a bit of an oversimplification. First are you talking laminate or Dacron. Secondly how has the boat been sailed. Thirdly, how much was paid for the sails in the first place.

I still think the jury is out on the longevity of laminates but good modern laminates well cared for should last longer than 5 years, unless you're determined to be at the front of racing fleet. Good Dacron should give 10 or 15 years good cruising service if well looked after. Then there's elementary sailsmanship like reefing early, UV protection, not letting sails flog, cleaning and early repairs. Lastly, paradoxically it may be cheaper to buy expensive sails that'll need replacing less often.
 
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I had a Pentex/tafetta main from UK Sails on my old First 345. Lasted about 6 or 7 years before it started to de-laminate, but held it's shape perfectly all that time.

A fabulous sail, and I would recommend it to anyone. The only down-side is that it was quite stiff, so flaking it was a bit tough. If you have a fully-battened main and a sackpack, it would be a complete winner.
 
Seajet said:
As a penniless apprentice - racing a Scorpion dinghy with 15 year old sails, I certainly saw the difference compared to sponsored gits who thought 6 months use for a sail deemed it ancient !
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I once sailed a championship where the winner (a sailmaker) used a new suit of sails EACH DAY ! Didn't actually make them go faster, but they then sold on 6 suits of sails as "winner of world championships"
Certainly top dinghy sailors often replace sails multiple times in a season - but bot necesary for cruising sails
 
Twister_Ken said:
Nice thought but a bit of an oversimplification. First are you talking laminate or Dacron. Secondly how has the boat been sailed. Thirdly, how much was paid for the sails in the first place.

I still think the jury is out on the longevity of laminates but good modern laminates well cared for should last longer than 5 years, unless you're determined to be at the front of racing fleet. Good Dacron should give 10 or 15 years good cruising service if well looked after. Then there's elementary sailsmanship like reefing early, UV protection, not letting sails flog, cleaning and early repairs. Lastly, paradoxically it may be cheaper to buy expensive sails that'll need replacing less often.
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TK,

I might be a bit of a purist re. renewing sails ! As mentioned, I''m no racing nut but they are the 'primary power source'...:)
 
Lakesailor said:
I found my hand was forced on my Foxcub after only 20 years of use.

mainbagginess.jpg
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My wife will shrink that in 1 wash.
 
Many of the OEM sails supplied with the boat aren't the cheapest Dacron money can buy, because it's not possible to buy (or get it from your sail maker) the Dacron they are made from! Many cloth manufacturers won't advertise the fact they supply the cloth, as it is bult to a price, and a low one at that.

Obviously this isn't the same for all boat manufacturers, as some will specify the sail cloth or make different cloth available as an optional extra.

As for the life of sails, how long is a piece of string? Dacron will last longer than laminates, but laminates hold their shape longer than Dacron.

My Hydranet sails still look and feel the way they did when they went on two years ago and we have done a bit of sailing in those two years.
 
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