Round the Island race collision - Total Loss

[yoda]

My insurers have just declared my beloved boat a total loss following a collision in the Round the Island Race. As the boat on Stbd tack (he was on port) I feel a little upset that the other boat is repaired and on his way while I loose a boat that I have sailed on for the past 32 years. The unfortunate part of this is that we have the same insurance company and clearly not in their interest to pay out more that the insured value. The money just doesn't make up for the loss, I've spent 10 years getting her to the way she is and now ... this.

Has anybody else found themselves in a similar position with insurers and managed to push them to a better settlement. In my case the cost is probably only about £1000 moe than the insured value. I just feel they are taking the easy option in all of this.

Yoda

 

[Boomshanka]

Really sorry to hear that Yoda I don't know how these things work, but any chance of you taking the insurance money, buying the boat off them for a nominal sum (£1) and then getting a GRP man to do the difficult bit and then you finish off to save money? You must be gutted.

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

My insurers have just declared my beloved boat a total loss following a collision in the Round the Island Race. As the boat on Stbd tack (he was on port) I feel a little upset that the other boat is repaired and on his way while I loose a boat that I have sailed on for the past 32 years. The unfortunate part of this is that we have the same insurance company and clearly not in their interest to pay out more that the insured value. The money just doesn't make up for the loss, I've spent 10 years getting her to the way she is and now ... this.

Has anybody else found themselves in a similar position with insurers and managed to push them to a better settlement. In my case the cost is probably only about £1000 moe than the insured value. I just feel they are taking the easy option in all of this.

Yoda

I true am really sorry that you are in this difficult situation, but unless you can buy the boat back and fix it yourself I cannot see any other solution.

I guess the insurance company plans to give you the insured value and then sell the remains for as much as possible to reduce their losses. As a commercial business we can hardly expect them to do anything else.

They key thing is to decide whether the boat really is repairable. The trick then is to negotiate a settlement with them that exceeds the cost of the repair to you.

If you can do some of the work yourself as suggested, then those numbers should add up.

Good luck.

 

[Georgio]

Commiserations Yoda, you must be gutted. If you are a soppy-sod like me then a boat is part of the family.

I have a pretty big insurance claim going through just at the moment, nothing like yours but just have fingers crossed that they are not going to be difficult about it.

 

[Reverend Ludd]

Yoda
You can of course fight them.
There is also the insurance ombudsman.
Lawyer is another route.
Alternately just go in and talk, do a bit of homework on prices etc.

Good luck

 

[sailorman]

I true am really sorry that you are in this difficult situation, but unless you can buy the boat back and fix it yourself I cannot see any other solution.

I guess the insurance company plans to give you the insured value and then sell the remains for as much as possible to reduce their losses. As a commercial business we can hardly expect them to do anything else.

They key thing is to decide whether the boat really is repairable. The trick then is to negotiate a settlement with them that exceeds the cost of the repair to you.

If you can do some of the work yourself as suggested, then those numbers should add up.

Good luck.

+1
thats a bummer Yoda.
she will be fixable & you know her inside out. what would you get for the ins money prol buggerall worth sailing. seriously consider repairing even if it cost you it will be better that traipsing around looking

 

[Lakesailor]

Insurance is a nightmare. They aren't interested in your emotional attachment. It's rotten.

You may be able to cut a deal to rebuild the boat yourself.

Knowing insurance companies, I would have been wary about using a loved boat for a race. In the same way I wouldn't use the family car to compete on a rally.

(Because I have done that, wrecked it, and had to mend it myself, at a loss)

 

[BrendanS]

Just a thought, but do you have legal insurance. You could try suing the other boat for the difference, which will eventually come out of the same insurers pocket, and cost them in time and energy. Faced with this threat, they may just decide it would be easier to settle with you, when you point out this fact to them (but likely to refuse to ever insure you again)

 

[Cymrogwyllt]

As far as insurance claims go It's far from unknown for repair firms to have a quotation book from from another company and wrok it out on the qt who gets what job and submit forms accordingly.

First hand experience. 'Don't bother getting a quote from aaa We have a quotation book of theirs and they have one of ours

 

[Cymrogwyllt]

added

If you are capable go the self repair route. Likely to cost a small fraction of the 'We'll screw you for all we can get' lot

 

[andygc]

Surely this is no different from a collision between cars? You'd need legal advice, but unless there is something odd about maritime law, if the other party was at fault and you can prove it, then he is liable to put you back in the position that you were in before his negligence - your claim should be against him, not your insurers. You should be able to submit a claim to him for your repairs and then it is a matter between him and his insurers, not you and yours.

 

[sailorman]

Surely this is no different from a collision between cars? You'd need legal advice, but unless there is something odd about maritime law, if the other party was at fault and you can prove it, then he is liable to put you back in the position that you were in before his negligence - your claim should be against him, not your insurers. You should be able to submit a claim to him for your repairs and then it is a matter between him and his insurers, not you and yours.

both boats same insurer.
Yoda needs to claim against the other owner

 

[andygc]

Yoda needs to claim against the other owner

Exactly my point. The fact that they have the same insurer is irrelevant. If they had different insurers the situation would be no different - the insurers will take the cheapest option they can get away with. Paying a few thousand for a write-off is cheaper than going to court.

As I wrote, he needs legal advice - not least because of the proof needed for a successful claim - did he comply fully with COLREGS? As there was a collision, possibly not, in which case there could be contributory negligence and he might only recover part of his loss.

 

[flaming]

did he comply fully with COLREGS?

As he was in a race it's the RRS that would apply, not the colregs.

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

Yoda
You can of course fight them.
There is also the insurance ombudsman.
Lawyer is another route.
Alternately just go in and talk, do a bit of homework on prices etc.

Good luck

Its a nice idea, but what difference are you going to sue for?

The boat was insured for a certain amount. The value to the owner was £1000 higher.

I am not a lawyer, but I did once see Cavanagh QC on TV and I can almost hear him saying:-

"So. Mr Yoda, if your boat was worth £x to you, why did you insure it for £x-1!!!!".

Sorry, I cant do the northern accent.

 

[Seajet]

Yoda,

you have my utmost sympathy; as you so obviously care for your boat, get her back and repair her !

Remember the amount of backup available through this forum; technical problems seem unlikely to prove a hurdle to the talents available here.

Wishing you every bit of luck,

Andy

 

[mickywillis]

My insurers have just declared my beloved boat a total loss following a collision in the Round the Island Race. As the boat on Stbd tack (he was on port) I feel a little upset that the other boat is repaired and on his way while I loose a boat that I have sailed on for the past 32 years. The unfortunate part of this is that we have the same insurance company and clearly not in their interest to pay out more that the insured value. The money just doesn't make up for the loss, I've spent 10 years getting her to the way she is and now ... this.

Has anybody else found themselves in a similar position with insurers and managed to push them to a better settlement. In my case the cost is probably only about £1000 moe than the insured value. I just feel they are taking the easy option in all of this.

Yoda

Can you not ask for an independant survey (paid for by yourself) to assess the damage to your own boat? Surely marine insurance isn't that different to motor insurance, in that you as the owner have the right to obtain alternative quotes for repair work and can then approach the insurers with whom you feel to offer the best value/quality of repair?
How bad is the damage to your own vessel? Within reason, most GRP repairs can be carried out by a professional repairer, even structural ones.
Are the insurers suggesting that your own boat is uneconomical to repair? If they feel that the value of the boat outweighs the costs of repairs, approach them with examples of boat the same/similar to yours which are for sale (obviously pick the highest priced ones!!) and speak to the insurance assessor who "total lossed" your own boat.
Good luck, don't accept the first offer the ins. co. offer you, persist in your efforts to obtain the boats true value.
If total loss, then I'd also recover items of high value that weren't included either when the boat was new or when purchased by you.

 

[dt4134]

If you have an agreed value with your insurance company are you not going to have an uphill battle getting more than that? As you say yourself the difference is about £1,000 and it could cost you a lot of trouble to squeeze even part of that out of them or the other boat owner.

As others have suggested you could buy the written-off boat from the insurance company and repair her yourself or get non-insurance quotes for someone to do it. There's a fair chance you'll find unidentified problems along the way, so it really could be a major project. Whilst you're doing that you won't have much chance to go sailing, and if you did there'd be less time to spend repairing your boat.

It is maybe not what you want to do at the moment, but it might be an idea to look at a few boats for sale and to see if you like the look of any of them.

 

[lukedh]

A loss adjuster works for the insurance company and tries to knock your claim down. A claims assessor or loss assessor works for you. They have expert knowledge of insurance law and will try to get all you are entitled to. You need one who has experience with marine insurance, you will have to ask around.

 

[savageseadog]

As he was in a race it's the RRS that would apply, not the colregs.

I'm glad to see someone's getting it.

I posted on the first thread to say that the collision damage appeared to shown that Yoda was on starboard but that now appears not to be the case. I pointed out that in the racing rules of sailing it is improper to collide if avoidable. So if a collision occurs the boat that could have avoided the collision is at fault. Unfortunately there was no protest or hearing so there is no apportionment of blame. The problem is that many boats treat RTI as a Saturday jolly on the water that the rules are forgotten (if they were ever known in the first place).