Round Britain and Ireland for a novice: Realistic?

[bitbaltic]

Thanks to everyone for all your advice and encouragement. I hadn’t expected such a great response!

It seems as though everyone agrees that a First 21.7 isn’t quite up to the job, including ballyabroad who should know what he’s talking about. I’m used to doing 30 miles a day in a kayak with 6 inches of freeboard and then sleeping on a beach so the ‘camping in a yacht’ plan seemed pretty appealing (also, 21 foot is enormous by my standards). But I do need to make decent progress and keep my crew happy, and I should have considered the benefits of an inboard engine.

Thanks for all the other suggestions: The Sadler 26 / Westerly Centaur / Tough as old boots bilge keeler is the obvious solution but I’m afraid I’m after something a bit more tippy. BBG’s Mini Transat suggestion is right up my street, and was actually the first boat I thought of, but they are a bit too deep and I figured too much of a handful for my limited experience. The Hanse 301 suggestion is a humdinger (thanks bitbaltic): fast, seaworthy and able to take to ground: Surely the perfect boat, but sadly I think it would be a bit too luxurious for me (remember: the plan is ‘camping in a yacht’).

I’m leaning towards something like a Beneteau first 25.7 or a Jeanneau Sun 2500 (thanks Doug748): All the benefits of a 21.7 with a bit more length, shallow draught, an inboard and a proper bog.

Perhaps I should tell you a bit more about my motivations: Basically, I love sailing small boats, and I love a challenge (climbing big mountains, jumping off of stuff, kayaking around things). Bragging rights also matter, so the Caledonian canal is hopefully a last resort (dunedin has the right idea, I also want to kayak it one day and I don’t want to spoil that adventure). I could be persuaded to cut out the west coast of Ireland …. But I have family (and potential crew) in Limerick and I thought it would make a good staging point.

I really appreciate all your advice, and I’m hoping I can draw on a bit more of that wisdom with a few more specific questions:

1. Can anyone recommend a good school for doing my day skipper? I don’t want to learn how to snag the mooring closest to the champagne bars at Cowes Week, I need a proper school!!
2. How the bloody hell do you buy a boat?
3. I’m going to need a permanent mooring. How does one go about getting one of those? (FYI, my family are based in Lee on Solent so I’m thinking Hamble or Portsmouth Harbour, and a swinging mooring)

Finally, thanks to Daydream Believer for the budget suggestion, very helpful. And Dylan Winter’s youtube channel is fantastic! It’s going to take me a while to digest all those videos.

Re. The mooring. It seems you've decided on the sporty end of the spectrum (and good for you!). I assure you I don't usually recommend my own yachting experience, but here I go again- consider the Bristol Channel if the object is sea trials and shakedown for the trip you propose. The Bristol Channel is easily reached from London, and is the only place in Southern Britain where you can prepare yourself for the seas you will encounter on the west and north coasts of Ireland and Scotland. The Solent will not give you the same sort of preparation. Berths here are much less expensive than comparable options in the Solent, and from the English side it is only a 3-4 hour drive to Southampton if you have Solent connections anyhow. Something to consider anyway.

Cheers

 

[Quandary]

Forget the bilge keel nonsense, you need a boat that will sail, the possible only reason for a bilge keeler is to cope with the East Coast, forget that too.
Head west, leave Ireland to port, but tell your friends in Limerick to drive up to Galway to meet you there, it is too much of a diversion to go up the Shannon, from NW Donegal head for Barra and hence up the east side of the Long Isle to Cape Wrath, round the top and back via the Cally and down home via the Irish East Coast.
Not a circumnavigation but you will have rounded Lands End, Fastnet Rock, Mizen Head, Bloody Foreland, Malin Head, Cape Wrath, Dunnet Head, Mull Of Kintyre, ticked off all the important corners. I agree with Boots, you will need to sleep under passage, but that is what wee yachts have over a canoe.
Once upon a time I would have been rarin to go!!!!!

Thanks for starting this post, even you never go you have cheered loads of us up in the middle of a wet and windy winter.

 

[bitbaltic]

Thanks for starting this post, even you never go you have cheered loads of us up in the middle of a wet and windy winter.

+1

 

[Bru]

Totally wrong choice of boat. Far too little experience, ludicrously short time scale,

You must be mad

Go for it!

You're only young once

 

[ShinyShoe]

Go for the west coast of Ireland

Couldn't agree more. A personal favourite that wont be on many peoples hit list - Kinvara (Kinvarra on google maps last time I checked) - near Galway.

IMHO a perfect little village.

AIS, radar, EPIRB are niceties. (waits for flames........).

You'd be fine with a PLB instead of an EPIRB for this journey. Or better still 2.
Whatever you do make sure those flames don't come from the pyrotechnics ;-)

Forget the bilge keel nonsense, you need a boat that will sail, the possible only reason for a bilge keeler is to cope with the East Coast, forget that too.

Really - or does it give you more options elsewhere, just they are exactly that OPTIONS rather than necessities.?

Head west, leave Ireland to port, but tell your friends in Limerick to drive up to Galway to meet you there,

Erm...
Let me try and understand this... ...Head west & leave Ireland to port - so its on my left as I go up the Irish Sea? Fine. But why tell the friends to go to Galway? They'll just get p155ed in the bars and you'll be no-where near them. Leave Ireland to Starboard!

Once upon a time I would have been rarin to go!!!!!

I wish I could find 3 months off to do this with!

Like others have said 3 months isn't long enough, Its doable, but not long enough... ...but I'd rather do it in 3 than not do it at all..

 

[Twister_Ken]

In the same vein as the 21.7 is the 260, or whatever Beneteau is calling it this week. Bit bigger, inboard engine, lift keel if you really want to play in skinny bits of water, quite a tart to sail.

 

[Sybarite]

The first boat I did an out-of-sight-of-land crossing in (France to Corsica - 100+nm) was a First 29 (fixed keel - early 80's). It had a very good all round sailing performance and a reputation as a good heavy weather boat. It might be useful to keep it in mind as an option.

http://www.finot.com/bateaux/ancienbt/first/first29/yycadre.htm

http://www.finot.com/bateaux/ancienbt/first/first29/cycadre.htm

http://www.finot.com/bateaux/ancienbt/first/first29/neptcadre.htm

 

[mrming]

I like bbg's suggestion of an old Mini.

The trouble with small club racers like the First 21.7 is they do rely on crew weight to make them go upwind in a blow.

A Mini is designed to be sailed fast by one person, and has the righting moment / form stability to cope with that, plus sail controls designed for singlehanding. There's also a good chance it might have a decent autopilot fitted. It will definitely satisfy the OP's camping requirement too.

 

[dylanwinter]

I like bbg's suggestion of an old Mini.

The trouble with small club racers like the First 21.7 is they do rely on crew weight to make them go upwind in a blow.

A Mini is designed to be sailed fast by one person, and has the righting moment / form stability to cope with that, plus sail controls designed for singlehanding. There's also a good chance it might have a decent autopilot fitted. It will definitely satisfy the OP's camping requirement too.

Jill and I cruised the eboat off the west coast - did about a three months in her

It was marvelous when the winds were light - however, without enough weight on the rail she was tough to sail in a four and a above, she needed a lot of steering through the wave patterns and there was bugger all shelter in the shallow cockpit designed for four men to work in rather than two people to hide from the wind..

The OP poses an interested problem - he wants a lot from a small boat.

- performance, speed, accommodation for three people not accustomed to sharing one room for crapping, eating and sleeping.

The choice of boat really comes down to how many good friends he has and how reliable they are. It can be hard, when in your mid thirties to find enough friends without family ties for a couple of weeks of challenging sailing in a cold place.

My other piece of advice is if you are going to invite people to share a boat and a bog with you then find people who have either been to boarding school or in the military. They will already have been taught about washing up, how to keep things tidy and not let their damp towells and smelly sox get spread all over the cabin.

 

[bitbaltic]

My other piece of advice is if you are going to invite people to share a boat and a bog with you then find people who have either been to boarding school or in the military.

Lol with one notable exception for each, those are my exact criteria for the sort of people I do NOT want to be shut up in a boat with!

 

[steve yates]

No advice as I know nothing, but Phil the cowman on here did a circumnav, singlehanded in his little 17ft pirate express.

I think you want the physical thrill of sailing hard in a wee boat, as opposed to the metaphysical thrill of travelling new places, so I'd get something like an e boat and save your money for curries and beer and just hammer it round.

As a dinghy sailor you understand wind and trim etc, as a kayaker you know tides and can navigate, as a climber you can doss and cook anywhere, so you've nothing to do but learn he foibles of whatever you buy . That you can do as you go along. I'd just buy something. Now while they are cheap, have a play, sort the hits that are knackered, set it up for single handing and then come spring, get going.
You'll have a blast.

 

[bbg]

I like bbg's suggestion of an old Mini.

The trouble with small club racers like the First 21.7 is they do rely on crew weight to make them go upwind in a blow.

A Mini is designed to be sailed fast by one person, and has the righting moment / form stability to cope with that, plus sail controls designed for singlehanding. There's also a good chance it might have a decent autopilot fitted. It will definitely satisfy the OP's camping requirement too.

Thanks. I'm a bit surprised the OP ruled it out on grounds of draft, but if he only plans to do day-sail hops that might be important. But if he only plans to do day sails, and sit out bad weather, his timetable is in jeopardy

 

[dunedin]

Thanks. I'm a bit surprised the OP ruled it out on grounds of draft, but if he only plans to do day-sail hops that might be important. But if he only plans to do day sails, and sit out bad weather, his timetable is in jeopardy

Yes, the Mini would be an interesting option - a lot faster than bilge keel brigade, and used to doing serious distances in tough weather.
Your point about draft got me thinking - as there were loads of Minis near to us in La Richelle last winter, in an area of the marina generally a lot less than 1.5m at LWS.
It looks like the draft of a Pogo 2 is just 1.6m - which would be perfect for most of the trip (I would be happy anything up to our 2m) - not much interior space though !
http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/2004/Mini-Transat-Pogo-2-2769021/United-Kingdom#.VlyIgXrfWrU

One of the latest blunt bowed Minis would be even better - but I expect currently well out of budget

 

[bbg]

Yes, the Mini would be an interesting option - a lot faster than bilge keel brigade, and used to doing serious distances in tough weather.
Your point about draft got me thinking - as there were loads of Minis near to us in La Richelle last winter, in an area of the marina generally a lot less than 1.5m at LWS.
It looks like the draft of a Pogo 2 is just 1.6m - which would be perfect for most of the trip (I would be happy anything up to our 2m) - not much interior space though !
http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/2004/Mini-Transat-Pogo-2-2769021/United-Kingdom#.VlyIgXrfWrU

One of the latest blunt bowed Minis would be even better - but I expect currently well out of budget

Draft on all "production" boats is limited to 1.6 m. Pogo 1 would be in the OP's budget and only a little less performance than the Pogo 2.

As for serious distances in tough weather ... I enjoyed 3 days of 20-25 knots upwind approaching Brazil. The boats can take it and keep moving.

 

[Quandary]

C



Erm...
Let me try and understand this... ...Head west & leave Ireland to port - so its on my left as I go up the Irish Sea? Fine. But why tell the friends to go to Galway? They'll just get p155ed in the bars and you'll be no-where near them. Leave Ireland to Starboard!

Sorry about that , arse from elbow situation, fairly normal with me these days.


I