Round Britain and Ireland for a novice: Realistic?

I have a friend who is part way through a round-Britain trip in a Dragonfly trimaran. Currently laid up for the winter somewhere near Oban I believe. Seems to be doing Ok. Now that is substantially faster than my old Sadler 29!
 
Daydream believer said:
So what is wrong with some contributors outlining their personal opinion & experiences. Surely he posted the thread to get exactly that
Click to expand...

I agree....

there are more ways to skin a cat etc

having spent the past few years sailing around the UK I have probably met more circumnavigators than the average sailor. I have been storm bound in lots of places so you get a chance to talk to the people on the boats doing it in a hurry.

they are a mixed bag and the skippers are a mixed bag too. Some of the skippers have been pretty angry and stressed by the whole procedure and you hear them taking it out on their crew members. It is always the blokes who are sailing around Britain with a calender in one hand and are really focussed on that glorious moment when they get to sail nack into the port and see the adoring gazes of their wife, children and fellow club members. The experience and pleasures of the journey have been completely subsumed in the endeavour.

here is a small story..... two decades ago I rode two horses from Kanas to Oregon along the Oregon trail. It is something lots of westerners aspire to do - a sort of landlubbers badge of honour which shoes that you have determination, toughness and an ability to sensibly manage limited resources.. After a month travelling alone I hitched up with a wagon train going the same way.

Some of the people on the journey were really focussed on getting it down - regardless of the consequences to their horses, their gear or their fellow travelers. Along with the group was a tall old bloke.... very calm, very quiet, really good with his horses. He was man with a philosophical bent.

I mentioned to him that there were a few people in the group who were really not enjoying themselves much. They were focussed on getting the job done not for the experience but just for bragging rights.

He said that it is going to come as a shock to these people - one day they will be sitting in a bar and mention in conversation that they have ridden the oregon trail (insert sailed around Britain) to the bloke on the next bar stool who will nod a bit and then ask what the football score is.

I have come across some fairly poisonous atmospheres on yachts where the skipper (whose dream this is) has been driving his crew too hard, forcing them to sail on days where there is no pleasure to be had flogging against the wind, or even worse motoring against it to hit that next date in the calender.

I think the OP with his original plan would be in danger of making not only his life a bit of a misery but those of his friends who came along to be part of the adventure.

21 foot is fine with two fit tough well resourced and expensively togged up experienced sailors who who know and trust each other

So I think the advice pointing out the downsides of doing (attempting) it in a 21 footer are worth mentioning in this sort of thread which we all enjoy contributing to.

It is hardly surprising that the usual round of vituperative arguments about boats that fall over when the tide goes away and filthy muddy rivers surface in such a thread. Nothing wrong with that at all.

I hope the OP tries it in his 21 footer - it would be a great story - but his own metal and that of his scratch crew of dinghy sailors will be mightily tested if he does it in three months in a 21 foot yacht.

Just saying like.
 
dylanwinter said:
I mentioned to him that there were a few people in the group who were really not enjoying themselves much. They were focussed on getting the job done not for the experience but just for bragging rights.

......

I have come across some fairly poisonous atmospheres on yachts where the skipper (whose dream this is) has been driving his crew too hard, forcing them to sail on days where there is no pleasure to be had flogging against the wind, or even worse motoring against it to hit that next date in the calender.
Click to expand...

Agree completely. This year I crewed in the RORC IRC series with a scratch crew who, for the most part in my opinion, were there to tick off achievements, rather than aiming to have fun, improve their sailing, and get some races done as a bonus. The result was that all of them took much less from the experience than they should have done and there was a pretty bad atmosphere on board. However in this case it was caused by overambitious/expectational crew, not an overambitious skipper.

Whenever I go to sea I am trying to get the most out of my seatime to improve my sailing, and it's concentrating on that- not distance sailed, boxes ticked, races done or circumnavigations- which makes the best sailors. I have met superb sailors who have never gone anywhere really, and individuals who have circumnavigated the world only to become complete liabilities onboard a boat. I can't find a better way of putting it but I think you should be looking for something inside yourself when sailing, because that's where satisfaction and achievement will come from, no matter where the boat is going.

If the OP sets out with that in mind he will be successful whatever the boat is and wherever he goes.

Cheers
 
Different people have different motivations, some are process orientated and some are end orientated. Trick is to understand what drives people.
 
Daydream believer said:
Why " take to the ground"
That suggests a bilge keeler & that is totally unnecessary
A bilge keeler certainly will not provide the " sporty" part of the OP's post
A bilge keeler might only be a knot or so slower but that is a lot when tidal gates & the like etc have to be met
Click to expand...

Because in a boat the size that the OP is considering, and likely single handed, the ability to use the many UK drying harbours is good. Relying on either anchoring or marinas is not.

As for a knot slower, you are out of date. Speed through the water is,little different as the many tests have shown. Poining ability upwind can be 10 degrees max different but then rounding britain on a beat in a 20 odd foot boat isnt reality.
 
JumbleDuck said:
Absolutely. The OP said "I fancy a quick blast round Britain in a small boat" and the advice is now to do it in nothing less than a 30 footer and to take three months at least over it. If he wants to do a quick blast round Britain in a small boat why the hell shouldn't he?
Click to expand...

Shouldnt or cant? Leaving aside that a 30 footer is a small boat, the real issue here is what is wise and practical and moderately safe. I dont think that the boat he suggested is any of those three.
 
The first boat I did an out-of-sight-of-land crossing in (France to Corsica - 100+nm) was a First 29 (fixed keel - early 80's). It had a very good all round sailing performance and a reputation as a good heavy weather boat. It might be useful to keep it in mind as an option.
 
dylanwinter said:
My advice is to buy something that will take the ground

as in twin or triple keel

it opens up lots more places to hide from the weather and makes the boat a lot cheaper to dump somewhere ashore should you need to break the journey into two halves

you will lose half a knot but who gives a fig

buy an old centaur/macwester and do it this spring

you know enough already

navigation is a piece of cake nowdays

locals will tell you about the tidal gates between where you are and where you are going

above all ignore the doom-mongers who tell you all the qualifications you need and why you should not do it

D

PS - three months is too much of a rush - you will miss more than you will see.
Click to expand...

I agree in part to what Dylan says above.

Go for it.!!
Most people are quite able to do it with common sense preparation and careful note of weather and tides. Information is readily available from many sources and gismos give all navigation, tides and weather.

The East coast especially, is where you'll take advantage of twin/bilge or drop keels.
Otherwise there may be very much fewer places that you take use of them.
You may encounter some poor sea conditions especially within 3 tides after a storm, when you'll want to get on with it.
For that reason a small open cockpit boat could get a bit rolly with twin keels and a small fin keeled yacht may be more than a bit sensitive for a novice.
For that reason, for your own safety and comfort I'd strongly consider looking at the well kitted out small long keelers that are well up to the mark.

The specific one I have in mind is the Twister 28. Mine got me through some dreadful conditions when I was a near novice and has nearly the same liveaboard volume as the first 21.
Several of this parish own one or have done and I await for confirmation of my views.

The one thing I believe you should do is ensure that you have all the mod' cons aboard to assist you in your hours of need.
Therefore because you'r a novice, buy wisely but well within budget, then kit out the boat to ensure you have the comfort and information that you need at your fingertips.
e.g. AIS, Active radar reflector, Radar, heating, chartplotter, vhf, EPIRB, liferaft, etc...

This may seem over the top to someone like Dylan who rarely goes to sea in a F5 or 6 but if you need to do it in 3 months and still really take time in the spots you reach, to enjoy them, then you will occasionally find yourself happily sailing on with the right boat and right gear. imho

Why, you could buy yourself a superb seaboat like a Tradewind for the budget you have! :)

S.
 
Last edited:
Go for the west coast of Ireland - it is a great cruising area. I would make landfall at Glandore or Castletownshend rather than the more obvious Kinsale, as it misses out a bit of boring coastline and puts you nearer the inlets of the Dingle peninsula.

Dingle north to the Aran Islands is a bit of a hike, with the only good shelter a long way of the rhumb line.

After that is is quite easy up round Bloody Forerland to somewhere like Portrush as a starting point for Scotland.

Moorings: Hamble; forget it. The family has sailed from since the 1930s, and what you are looking for is virtually impossible. Even if you could get a mooring, there is nowhere to park the car or keep the dinghy unless you are a member of a club. I used to keep my mine at Moodys (I think that was more a benevolent gesture by Jane Moody than anything) but I have heard that Premier have now got rid of the arrangements.

Portsmouth Harbour is more likely - but, again check car parking/dinghy storage.

Boat equipment - remember that people have sailed for centuries without a lot of the modern kit that is now deemed 'essential'. GPS has transformed navigation. I would not like to be without a GPS repeater showing SOG and bearing and distance to waypoint (100 quid NASA). You will need an autohelm. Get 2 as they are very unreliable. AIS, radar, EPIRB are niceties. (waits for flames........).

The specific one I have in mind is the Twister 28
Click to expand...

+1. Modest draft for a keel boat, stiff, tough (don't get an early one with a wooden cabin top). OK for 3 who are prepared to rough it a bit.
 
birdseye said:
the Vikings crossed the north sea in open boats propelled by oars. Doesnt mean its sense to do the same today
Click to expand...

None of this "recreational sailing" lark makes sense. For everyone saying "Haw haw, you can't do it in a 21-footer, you need a proper-sized boat like mine" there is someone with an even bigger one to say "Haw haw, that's not a proper-sized boat like mine".

I think the desire to squash enterprise is really rather sad. Must we all be sensible old farts?
 
JumbleDuck said:
None of this "recreational sailing" lark makes sense. For everyone saying "Haw haw, you can't do it in a 21-footer, you need a proper-sized boat like mine" there is someone with an even bigger one to say "Haw haw, that's not a proper-sized boat like mine".

I think the desire to squash enterprise is really rather sad. Must we all be sensible old farts?
Click to expand...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlTr6sODpkM
 
Tony Patrick did his circumnav of UK using the Edi-Gla canal in a Shipmate Senior (all 16' of it) and then went back a couple of years later to do the circumnav of Scotland also using the same boat.
For the UK + Wales trip he set out on 19 th May and got home on 5 th September and did not bust a gut to get round, but obviously had to respect the limits of both himself and his boat, which at times meant that he was holed up owing weather constraints.

Splitting the job into 2 either by the Cally Canal or the Edi-Gla Canal may also help the OP to realise his dream. I hope he does it and I am sure that a 30' boat would do it with a bit more comfort than a 21' boat. The accomplishment however, is still the same.

http://www.shipmate.org.uk/circumnavigation.php
http://www.shipmate.org.uk/Scotland.php
 
Knightrider - great post (#79). Sounds like you are clear about your objectives and priorities - and willing to pick up relevant suggestions that fit your objectives (slightly bigger and inboard engine) whilst maintaining the essence of your dream.
I don't know them personally, but the slightly bigger First does sound like a good compromise.

One slightly off the wall suggestion might be to go to somewhere like the Scottish Sailing Centre at the Isle of Cumbrae to do your day skipper. It will broaden your experience and get a flavour of a different area of the potential route (as well as being first class location and tuition)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Other threads that may be of interest

Irish Rover
Compact Binoculars 8 x 32
Replies
13
Views
577
Egret
E
R
My boat trip hopefully in May Around Scotland
2 3 4
Replies
65
Views
2K
RobBradley
R

Share this page

Top