RORC Seminar

[Birdseye]

Apparently the RORC are doing the rounds giving seminars about handicaps in general, IRC in particular dispelling inaccurate bar room talk about IRC. Just wondered if anyone else has had such a seminar and if its worth going to for a non IRC club racer.

And what bar room talk is there about IRC - all I have ever heard is the cost of it.

 

[TallBuoy]

Interesting. I have a close acquaintance who will know .....

The bar room talk in our club is not about the cost of getting an IRC rating, more about the cost of prepping the boat to be able to compete, and with a consistent crew every week.

In the Solent at club racing level, and I suspect the east coast from what I have read elsewhere, IRC classes are reducing in size which is why RORC will be getting worried, and hence trying to market themselves with the roadshows you mention.

 

[flaming]

The bar room talk in our club is not about the cost of getting an IRC rating, more about the cost of prepping the boat to be able to compete, and with a consistent crew every week.

The bar room talk I've heard is more people wondering how a boat can go into the shed for 6 months, come out with a new mast, boom, rudder, keel, be demonstrably massively faster, but rate slower.

Whether or not any of that is actually true is of course why it's bar room talk, and not rating protests....

But yes, RORC (And frankly all of us) are right to be worried about the collapse in fleet numbers. And most tellingly the total lack of new boats, and new owners, in the 30-40 foot arena.

 

[Judders]

Another big thread among barroom talk is people who buy boats that don't point and cant sail deep because they are far easier to sail and then complain that the rating doesn't allow for the fact that their far easier to sail boat is rubbish on upwind and downwind courses.

 

[Mark Taylor]

[QUOTE.........Just wondered if anyone else has had such a seminar and if its worth going to for a non IRC club racer.]

I sail a GK34 under the local CYCA system and also have a Sonata, for one-design stuff. I went to a similar seminar a couple of years ago at Kip Marina, hosted by RORC and the RYA, where there was discussion on IRC but also the soon to be introduced NHS system. I came away understanding a lot more about the various systems and also had a few pre-conceptions about those systems, and to be honest also some about the RORC, addressed.

For example, I have in-line spreaders + runners + check stays on the GK34 and had always assumed I would be hammered on these under IRC. It turns out I used to be hammered but now these features are treated much less harshly, the speaker commenting that in part this was because there was recognition that the costs of removing them on this type of boat would be disproportional to the value of the boat compared to any performance gain I might be getting.

When officials start making sensible pragmatic decisions like that then I start to have a bit more faith in the black magic it often appears they are playing with and it also makes me think they might be trying to do the best for an average owner, rather than the cheque book sailors who can afford new rigs, keels, rudders more often than I get a new sail! The explanations about single event certificates was also interesting and whilst I have not yet taken up the offer, it certainly might be used in the future.

I'd recommend you try and attend the forum.......I am sure you will learn something and the worst thing that can happen is you have an enjoyable mid-winter beer or coffee with some fellow boat owners.

 

[savageseadog]

The talk is more interesting than the talk

 

[Boo2]

And what bar room talk is there about IRC - all I have ever heard is the cost of it.

As a matter of idle curiosity what is the cost of obtaining an IRC rating for a 34' yacht ? The boat is a UFO 34 and already has a sail number but when that was granted I have no idea.

Boo2

 

[r_h]

As a matter of idle curiosity what is the cost of obtaining an IRC rating for a 34' yacht ? The boat is a UFO 34 and already has a sail number but when that was granted I have no idea.

Boo2

For a newly rated boat (as apposed to a renewal) it's £11 per metre of hull length.
For certain events you can also get a Limited Validity certificate for £1.60 per metre, plus £6 per day of racing.

 

[Mark Taylor]

For a newly rated boat (as opposed to a renewal) it's £11 per metre of hull length.
For certain events you can also get a Limited Validity certificate for £1.60 per metre, plus £6 per day of racing.

So, in the context of marina fees, insurances or just being at a regatta for a week of wining & dining, not actually that much! We lost a dyneema guy racing last year and that cost more than the rating would have cost us!

I think, as others have suggested beforehand, the issue isn't probably the actual cost of the rating certificate, but the perception that you need to spend big on sails and other things to play with the IRC boys..........although there are certainly quite a few boats sailing CYCA and even "white sails class" with boats with a lot of kevlar or carbon in their sails!

 

[Racecruiser]

Perhaps worth mentioning there is no need to go for an endorsed rating which involves an approved measurer weighing and measuring. A non-endorsed rating can be obtained easily where the rating office hold standard hull data (which they do for every class boat made as far as I can see) and the only measurement bit is sails which can be sail-maker or self measured.

Of course if you start doing well consistently then you should go for an endorsed rating to avoid bar-room grumbling and some clubs have 'understandings' about this - JOG being a case in point. Often an endorsed rating is better than one based on standard hull data - boats that have been around for a while may be heavier and have overhangs that reflect that.

 

[Kerenza]

I'm looking forward to the talk, if only to ask a few questions in the company of other club members.

As I've said here before I only race IRC because Im "encouraged" to, and the local attitude is that IRC = fast and NHC = slow.

The new sails arrive next week and I'm keen to get away for some racing next season while
they are still crispy, Cork being the obvious reasonably local event, but there I'm limited to EcHO or endorsed IRC.
There's no way we can afford the cost of 11 people for a week, so no chance of placing.

If we want to encourage more participation , particularly away from the Solent, stuff IRC, the sooner the better.

 

[Judders]

Sorry, are you saying you can only do Cork if your IRC is endorsed?

 

[Kerenza]

White sail, non spinnaker, EcHo or endorsed IRC. Paragraph 3.2

 

[Birdseye]

I think, as others have suggested beforehand, the issue isn't probably the actual cost of the rating certificate, but the perception that you need to spend big on sails and other things to play with the IRC boys..........although there are certainly quite a few boats sailing CYCA and even "white sails class" with boats with a lot of kevlar or carbon in their sails!

Thats more than just perception. At times in the past when IRC numbers have struggled because the sports boats are reluctant to play in winter, we have merged the IRC and PY /NHC fleets and sailed under PY/NHC. We still ended up with two seperate fleets with the IRC boats marching off into the distance.

It would be fair to say that the IRC sailors on the whole are better and keener sailors. But we had some boats, Sigma 33 for example, with one boat in IRC and one in PY and with the PY helmed and I believe crewed by ex IRC sailors. Nevertheless they came well down the results. The reason is preparation and equipment. You cant successfully race IRC with Dacron sails and a boat prepared for cruising. You have to be prepared to strip the boat back to handicap and spend money on kit. But then thats why its necessary to have two handicap systems.

 

[markhomer]

Heres a link to list of venues the rorc irc team will be appearing at , well worth a visit for everyone ,

I will be at the inverkip meeting , as irc measurer ,advocate and interested racer.

https://www.rorcrating.com/component/content/article?id=220:cruiser-racing-seminar-roadshow

 

[Kerenza]

Note these are the dates for 2013

 

[TallBuoy]

Thats more than just perception. At times in the past when IRC numbers have struggled because the sports boats are reluctant to play in winter, we have merged the IRC and PY /NHC fleets and sailed under PY/NHC. We still ended up with two seperate fleets with the IRC boats marching off into the distance.

It would be fair to say that the IRC sailors on the whole are better and keener sailors. But we had some boats, Sigma 33 for example, with one boat in IRC and one in PY and with the PY helmed and I believe crewed by ex IRC sailors. Nevertheless they came well down the results. The reason is preparation and equipment. You cant successfully race IRC with Dacron sails and a boat prepared for cruising. You have to be prepared to strip the boat back to handicap and spend money on kit. But then thats why its necessary to have two handicap systems.

Nail well and truly hit on the head.

 

[markhomer]

Note these are the dates for 2013

Ha good un , right enough oops , bloody google and scan reading for you !




Scottish seminar 8 th feb , hosted by ccc , 7.00 pm , will let you know more when i do

 

[harstonwood]

Ha good un , right enough oops , bloody google and scan reading for you !




Scottish seminar 8 th feb , hosted by ccc , 7.00 pm , will let you know more when i do

11th February at Plas Heli, Pwllheli, North Wales

Details here http://pwllhelisailingclub.co.uk/pscv3/en/126-social/whats-on/1353-psc-hosts-rorc-regional-seminar

 

[Judders]

NHC is ludicrous and the results are meaningless. The sooner it dies a death the better.

Simplified club handicaps such as those run by ISC or the Royal Southampton work far better but they do require a little more work.