Rogue Diallers (NB)

[dansar]

Have just checked my BT bill online and have found an international number has been dialled from my home 'phone. The lad was using the 'net' on the night the call was made and he has no knowledge of accessing any 'premium' site etc etc. The call was logged to an island in the Pacific, "TAVALU", and was for 28 mins long which has cost me £31.02. I assume most of the users of this forum know how these scams work. These malicious bits of code sit in your computer until you connect to your usual ISP and then silently disconnect you and phone a premium rate number instead.
You still get internet connectivity, but it can cost £1.50 (or more!!) a minute, and you do not realise what is going on until your next phone bill arrives.

My reason for posting this here is to ask what is the best route to follow to try and reclaim the money and to prevent this from happening again (OK-- I can hear someone shouting,--don't use the internet!!!). I've phoned BT and because the number was actually made from my home number the charge sticks. BT gave me a number to dial 0800500212 but they only work Mon-Fri. Their web site is www.icstis.org.uk

Any comments, and has any one else been hit ?

David

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Talbot]

Lucky that it was only £31. IIRC it will not happen if you are broadband.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[snowleopard]

a friend told me it happened to him and two hours on line via a rogue number cost him £120. he got nowhere arguing with BT and gave up in the end. it seems that BT sometimes pay in advance or very quickly on 09 numbers and the scammers then disappear. morally it would seem that BT are accessories to a crime but legally they can just take the money off you and run.

incidentally the use of Tuvalu derives from the fact that the island makes a lot of revenue from selling use of its .tv domain name.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[andyb]

My sister was not so lucky, £385.00 in call charges,a and no chance of claiming any of it back.
I think they had to get a guy in and clear the PC of all the crap and reload everything

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[dansar]

Thanks for those who replied. I've just spoken to a friend and he got caught out 2 weeks ago.

I think I might take the lad's laptop back to PC World--there is a free check up, which we are entitled to, so I might ask if it is worth wiping the disc and starting all over again. Interesting that my laptop and my PC have not had any problems--I'm quite religous in downloading all the XP updates from Microsoft and wonder if this has helped me. The lad's computer has not had an update for more than 2 months!!

Any further posts from those "in the know" would be appreiciated

David

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[BustinAround]

Shouldn't need to wipe everything unless the fella who's fixing it is incomptetant.

He was probably tricked into installing it, so keeping windows up to date wouldn't really have made a difference. That said, service pack 2 has made it harder for the scammers by stopping them bombarding you with install requests (but I have seen some websites that have managed to make their install requests very very believable even with this protection). By far the best defense is to be aware, but unfortunately you can't buy that in a box for £20.

You might want to consider some kind of "malware protection", like the full version of ad-aware, and some virus checkers that provide spyware protection. I think mcafee do this, but I'm not sure.

I'm not sure what the actual legal situation is with regards to rogue dialers. Seeing as the installation is actually illegal, and then it uses your phone line, I'd have thought that you wouldn't be liable for any costs. If someone breaks in to your house and makes some international calls would you have to pay?

Maybe its worth being pushy... some others might know the facts about this?

Those of you who have had to pay significant amounts of money, didn't you think of reporting it to the police? After all, its a violation of the computer misuse act, and if you have reported a crime you might have more credibility with the phone company.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Benbow]

These things are not difficult to get rid of. I suggest you install spybot which can be found <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.spybot.info/en/index.html>here</A> . At least if you do this you are protected in the future which may not be tha case if pc world just zap it.

It is true that if you are on broadband and don't have a phone line connected, then a dialler cannot dial out.

It is also worth gently pointing out that at some time someone on the machine was lured into allowing a download. It really cannot happen without the user authorising it, although of course you don't know what you are authorising ! Essentially, be very very careful what you download and run on your PC. For instance I have just advised you to download and install a piece of software and you don't know me from Adam, don't trust me ! Google around for spybot, look at a few links and convince yourself that it is safe first. The great thing is , that most people are helpful, so if someone starts spreading misleading information, it will very quickly be detected and warnings made available if you know where to look.

As for why your lads PC was affected while yours wasn't, well, its got nothing to do with updates, more to do with sites visited !


<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[webcraft]

I think if someone broke into your house and made some international calls you would definitely have to pay. What happens on your equipment is your responsibility and it is up to you to recoup the costs from the perpetrator. (Good luck!)

I am afraid the phone company have the upper hand - they can simply cut you off.

Most of these diallers come down via porn sites, which is another reason you may find BT unsympathetic . . . and perhaps a reason why you might not want to put your computer into PC World for them to poke around if you are not sure where your son has been. Of course, a more compelling reason to keep your machine out of PC World is that they will at best wipe your HD and lose all the data you DO want to keep (even if they tell you they won't).

You can put a bar on premium rate calls on your phone, which will help - but it won't help with sites/diallers that use international numbers - you probably still want to be able to make international calls. The simple answer is to go Broadband - assuming you can get it where you are.

AdAware is OK, I run this plus NoAdware and between them they seem to find everything. AdAware is free for personal use. NoAdware isn't, but you can download a free version which wil scan your PC and let you know if it finds anything - you can then pay for a license if you think it's worth it, and it will then remove the parasites it finds. I would run AdAware and remove everything it finds, then download and run the free version of NoAdware to see if it finds anything else. Of course, this is all IMHO - some people loathe NoAdware and will recommend alternatives. All I am saying is that none of them find everything, so more than one weapon in your arsenal can be useful.

Overall - it wasn't too expensive a learning curve, and hopefully won't happen again - I'd just put it down to experience and forget about it.

Hope this helps,

Nick










<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.bluemoment.com>http://www.bluemoment.com</A></font size=1>

 

[jonjo]

>> What happens on your equipment is your responsibility and it is up to
> you to recoup the costs from the perpetrator.

I disagree with this stance. Take a step back for a moment and at a national level you can guarantee that 10,000's of people will get hit by such fraudulent internet activity. BT take a share in these profits.

In a well managed country the directors of all telecom companies would be summoned to London and told that they had 6 months to block calls to such offshore rouge operators, otherwise they would be personally convicted of fraud.

Trouble is the government bodies setup to protect the consumer always end up being too pally with those they are meant to police and as a result they empathize with the “problems” of big business.



<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[webcraft]

Two points Jonjo . . .

One, it is not a 'stance' , merely a statement of fact - that is how things work, both legally and in practice. I didn't say I condoned it. Frankly I think the phone companies are a pretty despicable bunch and I agree that stricter controls should be applied to the selling of premium rate numbers - but that's another matter.

However . . . clamping down on BT-supplied premium rate numbers is one thing, but international calls - which were the subject of this thread originally - are beyond BT's control. It takes hours, not days to set up a porn site which dials through to international numbers - there is no way for BT to monitor this.

So - it's not their fault . . . and as another poster pointed out, you have to agree to download a dialler . . . and you have usually been on a dodgy site when this happens. YOU install it on your machine, and therefore YOU are responsible for its use.

The trouble is we all seem to expect to be protected from the consequences of our own actions . . . everything is someone else's fault, isn't it? We will soon legislate, litigate and sue ourselves into oblivion . . .

- Nick



<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.bluemoment.com>http://www.bluemoment.com</A></font size=1>

 

[boatless]

Deviating slightly, but be careful with Ad Aware. I've been using it over about three years, and was perfectly happy to trust it not to delete anything important.

Not so now. Ex wife was using it and it deleted some core components from tcp/ip. resulting in a pretty time-consuming hunt for the problem (browsers wouldn't browse, although you could ping out).

Would suggest that you use the quarantine option, not delete, until you're sure all is OK.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[jonjo]

> One, it is not a 'stance' , merely a statement of fact

Laws change. In the early days of predictive marketing diallers you might have claimed that it was an individual's choice to pick up a ringing phone or not. Eventually the Law caught up and mitigated the effects of a new technology aggravation.

Anyhow I am not so sure you statement is so factual.

At what point during the download does an individual consciously enter into a contract that allows third party software to dial an external number and raise charges?

> intenational calls are beyond BT's control. It takes hours, not days to
> set up a porn site which dials through to international numbers

Nonsense. BT is collecting money on behalf of these offshore fraudsters.

All BT need do is amend their billing system so that after the first few dozen customer complaints they simply purge charges to such a number for all customers. Given that these scams are based in tin-pot little countries I cannot believe that the recipient telecom company will have any commercial leverage to pursue a complaint.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[dansar]

Again many thanks for those who have taken time to reply.

I have used Ad-aware on my laptop for 10 months now and since using it have had no probs. Will try it on the lads.

As for Broadband. We'd love it but live in the sticks in East Yorkshire where we have only just thrown the 2 tin cans and a length of string into the bin!!!!! Joking appart BT have promised Broadband by the end of March next year so we will be first in the queue.

As for the reply of who pays? I think that because the charge was made without the user knowing directly, ie there was no warning that the ISP connection was going to switch off and a £1.10 per minute connection be put in its place, then BT should withhold payments to the thief, 'cause basically thats what they are. But as these people live abroad its more difficult to trace--they prob change the number once a week and work from a Box number, address etc.

If anything else happens I'll let you all know. Keep the posts going as I'm sure there must be hundreds of unhappy people from all walks of life who have been stung.

Monday morning I'm on the phone--so long as it's working!!!!!

Regards

David

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Peppermint]

Re: Look here old chap

http://www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog/advice/internet.shtml

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Mike21]

Have broadband so not a problem as modem not connected, but have a block on the phone for all premium rate numbers, BT did this free of charge

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Colinl]

I use SpyBot Search & Destroy, Adaware (both are free to home users)and they work fine never had a problem with them. Trick is make sure you update them as well as your anti virus. I also set Internet Explorer to prompt me to alow or deny cookies. Also I delete Internet files in the Internet Options general tab about once every 2 weeks.
Check that the number before you dial is the corect one Pain in the ass but a lot cheaper than being caught.

Colin

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Colinl]

Sorry forgot to mention that all you Broadband users make sure you have a firewall software installed. Zone Alarm do a basic free one.

Colin

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Benbow]

That's a good point. Don't get the impression that you are safer with broadband, you are actually much less safe, its just that you are safe from diallers.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[dansar]

Following my original post, I have this morning spoken to BT and have for a charge of £1.50 a month excluded all international calls from my home phone number (premium rate numbers within the UK can be barred at no cost). I don't like having to pay extra but I think it is a good insurance policy against these sods who take your money without you knowing. I'm now trying to contact ICSTIS (their phone is busy ---I wonder why?) to report the number in question and to see what can be done.

Thanks everyone for your replies and fortunately the cost for me wasn't that great unlike others.

David

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[ColinW]

You are wasting your time trying to claim back money. BT (and NTL) have known about this problem for years and have conditions in their contracts to cover themselves. Call blocking is the best solution, I set mine so it only makes local calls but some people might find that too inconvenient. There are many other sources for these programs other than porn sites and they are often on sites that kids use like MP3 download sites. If you have an NT type operating system (ie later than WIN98) then set up one administrator account for yourself to use just for installing software and minimal privelege accounts for the family (including yourself) to use surfing or Messengering, that way rogue sites won't have high enough priveleges to install software.


<hr width=100% size=1>