Sybarite
Well-known member
The French set-up would contradict those assertions.
RNLI vs Daily Mail
- Thread starter Thistle
- Start date
The French set-up would contradict those assertions.
Mark-1
Well-known member
I don't think there's anything that prevents people working for the RNLI admin/management either unpaid or for a token payment. Seems that people just don't typically offer to do so. I certainly couldn't/wouldn't work full time unpaid no matter how good the cause.
jordanbasset
Well-known member
Yes but isn't that down to the fact the individuals went to the press and put it on social media. Having done that I think the RNLI were within their rights to put their point of view
Tranona
Well-known member
When are you ever going to understand that they are entirely different organisations - even if some of their activities are similar.
john_morris_uk
Well-known member
Tranona
Well-known member
Well said. Totally impervious to rational argument, reason - or even those illusive "facts".
Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique rolls through my mind every time I read his posts - and we all know how that ends up.
Mark-1
Well-known member
JumbleDuck
Well-known member
I am not an HR expert and I am not a lawyer. However, I have managed both voluntary and paid workers. As far as I am aware, volunteers have no rights under employment law because they have no obligations. Mutuality of obligation (the employer has to give work; the employee has to do it) is a crucial test of whether someone is an employee.
There is a useful guide to the definition of "employee" at https://www.thompsonstradeunion.law...ue-103-september-2005/an-employee-or-a-worker, and a guide to volunteers' rights at https://www.theguardian.com/society/2009/sep/03/charities-volunteers-employment-law-advice
Tranona
Well-known member
Why? The ideas from that source are central to all his posts related to the RNLI (if peripheral to this thread) so you cannot separate the content from the poster. Critiquing the idea inevitably critiques the person.
As we have seen nothing that anyone posts to counter his position makes any difference, including rejecting or ignoring facts that do not suit his arguments.
dom
Well-known member
May I be a pendant here and suggest that John and Tranona are not actually guilty of ad hominem here: sarcastic and mildly insulting for sure, but not ad hominem. For the existence of insult or personal attack does not in itself indicate ad hominem, which requires the attack must be directed towards undermining the other's argument.
Come to think of it, John's "idée fixe" is about the best logical explanation I have seen for Sybarite's endless attacks on the RNLI: vessel procurement, lifeboat ability, real-estate investment, launching systems, ethical and diversity policies, pension policy, collection techniques, legacies, head office in Poole, engine maintenance........................................................
And I guess the collective irritation stems from his endless attempts to distort every RNLI related thread into yet another RNLI/SNSM spat.
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JumbleDuck
Well-known member
JumbleDuck
Well-known member
Understand it? That's precisely his point - that two very different organisations are providing very similar services.
"How dare you compare chalk and cheese? They are completely different."
JumbleDuck
Well-known member
+1. The personal abuse Sybarite gets for raising pertinent points politely is rather depressing, and betrays a certain fixéedness of his detractors' idées. Play the ball, chaps, and not the man.
JumbleDuck
Well-known member
"Everybody has £100k spare. I asked a few other retired people in my yacht club and they all agreed"
Tranona
Well-known member
Unfortunately playing the ball when incorrect information is constantly repeated gets rather wearing. If you have the patience to read the long posts from that source you will see that politeness is not rewarded. Anything that does not fit the preconceived ideas is ignored and discarded, not countered.
And just to make it absolutely clear without asking you to read everything I write on the subject, my position is exactly the opposite of fixed ideas. The basis of my argument is that any analysis of the organisation must be set in the context of the organisation in the widest sense, not fitted into a preconceived idea of what it should be and using inappropriate tools. Comparisons with other organisations are of limited use, particularly when the overlap in activity is relatively small and more importantly the organisational context is very different.
I suggested he carried out a comparison of the UK and French rail systems. They both run trains, but......
Poecheng
Well-known member
Do they? Not so sure. :encouragement:
Heckler
Active member
There is a point you are missing, the Admiral who had the press release sent out in his name was quite categoric, "hard core pornography" so that is a definite. If your throw away comment " declard to be soft core harmless fun" is found to be true then some one will have been tellng porkies! So it is the crux of the matter! What falls out from there is a byproduct of someone telling porkies!
Heckler
Active member
Just to be clear John, who are you referring to when accusing somebody of suffering from or being afflicted by idee fixe?
Quite a serious accusation on a public forum?
Heckler
Active member
If it or he irritates you that much, why continue arguing? Just put him on ignore, its not difficult. Yours and Johns arguments could just as well be aimed at yourselves! You are just as guilty as him banging on!
dom
Well-known member
To be fair, John wrote entirely in the conditional tense
" Even if you saw the actual mugs in question and declared them to be soft core harmless fun, and even if everyone agreed with you, it appears that there was much more to this story than this. "