RNLI vs Daily Mail

[Juan Twothree]

That was a comment I made elswhere. Maybe, just maybe, those people would then have some understanding of the black humour that gets you through difficult situations. Then, when they have returned to shore, they can get back to their quinoa salads carried home in a Fair Trade shopping bag.

Nearly all of the RNLI managers that I have met are either former crew members, or former emergency services personnel. In some cases, both.

They certainly aren't straight out of school or university.

And sorry, but I do sometimes have quinoa salad. But only because my wife makes me.

 

[Mark-1]

Mechanical problems apparently. Gone back to Poole for an engine change.

Thanks JTT, you're right, head gasket:
https://rnli.org/news-and-media/201...boat-george-sullivan-undergoes-engine-repairs

 

[Dutch01527]

As a matter of interest, how many night-time lifeboat call-outs in rough weather have you been on?

That came from my post so I will answer.

None - life boats are few and far between in Gloucestershire. However, I have led a team securing 500 tons of pipes smashing our hull out in a Force 12 tropical cyclone in the South China Sea, recovered a body that had been in the water for days via ships life boat following another ship sinking and been first on the scene administering futile first aid to a man who was crushed by a container and died in my arms. Not the same but no less scary and traumatic I would suggest.

During the pipe operation one of my colleagues had a fear related accident but carried on working and was thereafter good naturedly known as brown trousers. Bullying or black humour?- I suspect our views would differ on that.

 

[Juan Twothree]

During the pipe operation one of my colleagues had a fear related accident but carried on working and was thereafter good naturedly known as brown trousers. Bullying or black humour?- I suspect our views would differ on that.

One of our crew once had to go straight home after he got off the boat, still wearing his drysuit.........:disgust:

 

[Cheery]

As a matter of interest, how many night-time lifeboat call-outs in rough weather have you been on?

None, but I was in the Army so that is where my comment regarding black humour comes from. Do you think that the guards outside Buckingham Palce swear in front of Her Majesty? Absolutely not, but you can bet when faced with hazardous situations they do. You can also bet that if a member of the Royal family were in a terrorist situation, they wouldn't be bleating at the language used by those protecting them.

 

[lpdsn]

Very true, but in this case it seems to be exoneration, not condemnation, which relies on newspaper mock-ups ...

But earlier you condemned them on the basis that photos of the real mugs hadn't been published. There's no reliable evidence to date on what was really on the mugs. The lack of evidence is no proof of guilt.

 

[Tranona]

My long experience in HR had given me an instinct for such matters ..... but we'll have to await the full story before all the doubters are convinced.

Richard

As well as those who jump to conclusions based on partial information and "instinct", rather than facts - not that these are easy to come by.

There is an in built bias in this thread (and others in the past) against the management of the RNLI which is not consistent with my considerable experience of working with them (admittedly in the past).

However they are a natural Aunt Sally for some, particularly those who seem unable to recognise that it is a large diverse and unique organisation which in many ways does not "fit". It is a challenge to run it in a way that both satisfies its traditional ethos while also reflecting today's expectations (and statutory requirements). Added to that is for many a blurred view of the notion of what being a charity means in today's society.

 

[john_morris_uk]

None, but I was in the Army so that is where my comment regarding black humour comes from. Do you think that the guards outside Buckingham Palce swear in front of Her Majesty? Absolutely not, but you can bet when faced with hazardous situations they do. You can also bet that if a member of the Royal family were in a terrorist situation, they wouldn't be bleating at the language used by those protecting them.

But you've actually made a point that supports the management of the RNLI. There's a time and a place for everything and it appears that the crew didn't appreciate that.

I'm no snowflake and am well aware of how black humour is used in various challenging circumstances and I've pulled bodies from the water but I also appreciate that making the work (or volunteer place) a safe and appropriate environment means some dinosaur views have to change.

I've heard lots of accounts from people who think they have been aggrieved and are being dismissed. There's always two sides to the story and the way that the account reads shouts out to me that there's more to this than meets the eye and the character of the person involved doesn't seem to have hoist in what is required nowadays.

There are a lot of people on here who leap to defend the crew and make huge assumptions about their so called innocence. The same people are also very quick to make large assumptions about management and to dismiss equality and diversity which says rather a lot about them and their attitude to the modern workplace and what is required by law.

 

[Cheery]

I agree entirely about a time and a place, hence my comment, but the young man said he removed the cup when asked and you would have thought that would be an end to it. It seems not, and if there is more that either side aren't saying then the RNLI have only themselves to blame for the PR fiasco they have allowed to develop.

It seems to be a little bit like 1984, 'You will have to take our word for it, the pictures were offensive', but the young man did his bit and removed the item.

I would like to know how much money this has cost the RNLI in mishandling of the case, whether they were right or wrong to stand these men down.

 

[NorthUp]

Cheery, if you followed this fiasco from the start you would realise that hard porn on mugs was not the only reason for the sackings, that was only the start of a social media campaign aimed at another person.
Like it or not, the RNLI are legally obliged to act, failure to do so leaves them wide open to compensation claims (edit, and convictions in court) from the alleged wronged parties. Thats not where I want my donations going.
The crewmen (allegedly) broke employment law- if you dont like that law, vote in fresh politicians and see what they can do.

 

[Seajet]

So much for the maroons and pagers going off at midnight in a Force Ten, so now it's ' lets look up my T's and C's ' is it ?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeIX0VnUMKo

 

[Mark-1]

I agree entirely about a time and a place, hence my comment, but the young man said he removed the cup when asked and you would have thought that would be an end to it. .

Indeed you would, so the fact that wasn't the end of it is either pretty strong evidence that people *were* "threatening and abusive" or pretty strong evidence that the RNLI needlessly dismissed volunteers. Given the PR nightmare involved in dismissing volunteers I doubt the RNLI do it unless they have to so my bet is the former.

 

[Biggles Wader]

Indeed you would, so the fact that wasn't the end of it is either pretty strong evidence that people *were* "threatening and abusive" or pretty strong evidence that the RNLI needlessly dismissed volunteers. Given the PR nightmare involved in dismissing volunteers I doubt the RNLI do it unless they have to so my bet is the former.

You could be right and what happened was that two members of staff of long standing were so beyond the pale that they had to be got rid of, or------the RNLI management are so aggressive and macho that they just attack their staff randomly "pour encourage les autres".
Perhaps its more a combination of bits of both. Front line staff were a bit out of date with modern niceties and RNLI junior management handled the situation poorly. Minor problem turns into Mexican standoff and senior management back their junior. Result is a major PR debacle and lots of dirty washing gets hung out in public. There have been several other similar cases recently. Perhaps there could be fault on both sides.

 

[Mark-1]

There have been several other similar cases recently. Perhaps there could be fault on both sides.

My guess, described above, requires little or no fault on either side. Crew quite reasonably resent interference from management over an issue they quite reasonably regard as trivial. They, quite understandably kick off in quite an aggressive way about it both in person and online. Management can't let that carry on and eventually they have to let them go.

It's not quite Occam's razor but if there's an explanation that doesn't require anyone to have behaved like a pantomime villain, then that has to be favourite AFAIC.

 

[JumbleDuck]

But earlier you condemned them on the basis that photos of the real mugs hadn't been published.

I didn't. I just said that it was suggestive that the real mugs have not been offered as evidence.

 

[JumbleDuck]

There are a lot of people on here who leap to defend the crew and make huge assumptions about their so called innocence. The same people are also very quick to make large assumptions about management and to dismiss equality and diversity which says rather a lot about them and their attitude to the modern workplace and what is required by law.

+1 The assumption that anyone who cares about equality and diversity must be a "snowflake" is very disappointing.

 

[Seajet]

Not necessarilly.

I know two brothers from ' an RNLI family ' whose dad won medals; they both left because of the politics, and both are still in VERY caring professions, the nicest, solidest gold people you'd ever wish to meet or want to help you.

I also know someone from RNLI admin who I wouldn't trust with a pencil sharpener.

 

[Juan Twothree]

+1 The assumption that anyone who cares about equality and diversity must be a "snowflake" is very disappointing.

And anyone who does so most definitely shouldn't be volunteering for the RNLI.
According to a comment on the DM article:

"Any lifeboatman who doesn't quit because of this should be deeply ashamed".

Oh well, I guess I fail on both counts.

 

[Juan Twothree]

Not necessarilly.

I know two brothers from ' an RNLI family ' whose dad won medals; they both left because of the politics, and both are still in VERY caring professions, the nicest, solidest gold people you'd ever wish to meet or want to help you.

I also know someone from RNLI admin who I wouldn't trust with a pencil sharpener.

What "politics"?

You sometimes get minor squabbles on station, between particular groups or individuals, but I've never come across anyone leaving due to any "politics" imposed from HQ.

The only real edict that people have to abide by is the Volunteers Charter, which basically stipulates that the RNLI expects its volunteers to behave like grown-ups.

It's sad that it has to be laid out in a document, but that's the world we live in.

 

[Seajet]

Obviously I can't go into details, but these were hassles from HQ which bothered committed lifelong crews - not just the brothers I mentioned and not at a previously mentioned station - to walk away.