RNLI call out data from RYA

Halo said:
Wow. What a disappointing response. When I posted this I just wanted to help focus fellow boaters attention on what could catch them out.
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You started by saying "A few people have been critical" You've been around long enough to know that some will ALWAYS be critical - give them a new 30 footer and they would moan because it wasn't bigger.
 
Halo said:
Wow. What a disappointing response. When I posted this I just wanted to help focus fellow boaters attention on what could catch them out.
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For some putting RNLI or RYA in a post is an invitation that compares with 'anchor'. Put both in and you were bound to get the usual bashing.

The data does somewhat tantalise. In itself is fairly interesting, but to the point where it opens up so many questions. For example, when talking about gear failure, it would be very interesting to know the specifics and compare with your own boat. Perhaps worth a request to PBO or RYA to drill a bit more.
 
Gary Fox said:
On at least 3+ occasions, I have informed the HMCG of a non dangerous situation, and they have, despite me explaining in words of one syllable there was no danger let alone distress, sent a multi-million pound all-weather lifeboat,
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What action did you want them to take?

Pete
 
Halo said:
A few people have been critical of the RYA on this forum. I am a member of the RYA and have just got the latest edition of the RYA magazine which contains information I think many serious practical boat owners would be interested in. The key bits for me are as follows

More that half of RNLI call outs 2017-2019 were for the same five reasons. These were

1. machinery failure 4125 call outs with common causes of engine overheat, contaminated fuel, faulty filters , blocked filters, faulty or bady tensioned belts

2. Equipment failure 1973 call outs with loss of power , haliard ,mast and shround failure, steering and rudder failure

3. Sranding or grounding 871 call outs - misread charts, missed tides, bad luck

4./ Human error 500 call outs - Nav error , bad planning, insufficient skill or experience for conditions

5. Sinking 200 call outs - propshaft coupling , stuffing box, deep sea seal, exhaust , skin fittings

I suggest the above should focus our attention on what is important in boat maintenance

I notice that if you lump together loss of power , fuel contamination and filter problems then this seem to be a real weakness and good fuel treatment should be a priority

There is no mention of sail drives but shaft drives seem to be the main cause of sinkings

Hope you find this useful !
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Interesting that “weather” as such is not mentioned except, obliquely, through bad planning and insufficient experience to deal with conditions. Are sailors getting more careful? Is it because forecasts are more reliable or more information is available? Or is it that our boats are better constructed?
 
Gary Fox said:
On at least 3+ occasions, I have informed the HMCG of a non dangerous situation, and they have, despite me explaining in words of one syllable there was no danger let alone distress, sent a multi-million pound all-weather lifeboat, manned by expensively trained volunteers each wearing two grand's worth of kit.
Once on my yacht, and more than twice on deliveries.
The trouble is that I would now be extremely reluctant to speak to HMCG about anything at all, until we were actually bobbing around in our lifejackets, on fire and bleeding to death.
What is the point of having coastguards, if they are office workers in a call centre in Fareham, with zero knowlege of the coast, ships, tides, and all the rest?
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I to have called the Coastguard twice, both no immediate danger. First when we picked up a rope around the propshaft off Rathlin Island and were held by the stern.
The Portrush all weather was tasked, a nearby yacht stood by untill they arrived, about an hour. When they arrived the tide had picked up and was tilting the boat, a 38 foot heavy long keeler.

The lifeboat crew, despite trying very hard were unable to do anything until the tide went slack whereupon the offending line was easily raised and cut.

Fantastic service, never any real danger to life but without them I could not have freed it.

Second time, weak tired crew, heavy swell, off the needles channel. Total engine failure, fuel supply.

New filters fitted, working again for ten minutes, failed again. Now headed by the wind and with the tide starting to ebb I called Solent CG. I made it very clear that a lifeboat was not required and that we could remain at sea and go to the East on the wind available but that fatigue was an issue.

The CG put out an 'all ships' and a sail training vessel, 'Maybe' came to us from the buoys outside Yarmouth and towed us to East Cowes.

Phew! Relief all round, thank you Maybe!

I gave a large donation to the Portrush RNLI and the first thing that went over Maybe's deck was a case of beer!

The fuel problem was a blockage of the main feed from the tank caused by contaminated fuel picked up in rural Ireland from cans.

Easily resolved the next morning.
 
Halo said:
Wow. What a disappointing response. When I posted this I just wanted to help focus fellow boaters attention on what could catch them out.
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Why are you disappointed?

The data is very, very poorly collated. With a bit of luck perhaps somebody at the RNLI will read your thread and start thinking about what they are collecting, why they are collecting it and what use could it be to the sailing/seafaring community. Then formulate a plan, perhaps with the assistance of the RYA into reducing the number of shouts they need to respond to. Personally, I'd like to know how many shouts were to non human animals.

Disclaimer: I spent a lot of my working life analysing vast quantities of data to improve "things", late in my career those "things" were safety critical systems. Trying to ask the right sorts of questions is never easy and it is often the data outliers that either are a complete revelation or a very, very long sidetrack.
 
franksingleton said:
Interesting that “weather” as such is not mentioned except, obliquely, through bad planning and insufficient experience to deal with conditions. Are sailors getting more careful? Is it because forecasts are more reliable or more information is available? Or is it that our boats are better constructed?
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Online reliable forecasts definitely, and more cautious (or better informed) yachtsmen, maybe.
Modern yachts better constructed? Ha ha ha :D
 
rotrax said:
I to have called the Coastguard twice, both no immediate danger. First when we picked up a rope around the propshaft off Rathlin Island and were held by the stern.
The Portrush all weather was tasked, a nearby yacht stood by untill they arrived, about an hour. When they arrived the tide had picked up and was tilting the boat, a 38 foot heavy long keeler.

The lifeboat crew, despite trying very hard were unable to do anything until the tide went slack whereupon the offending line was easily raised and cut.

Fantastic service, never any real danger to life but without them I could not have freed it.

Second time, weak tired crew, heavy swell, off the needles channel. Total engine failure, fuel supply.

New filters fitted, working again for ten minutes, failed again. Now headed by the wind and with the tide starting to ebb I called Solent CG. I made it very clear that a lifeboat was not required and that we could remain at sea and go to the East on the wind available but that fatigue was an issue.

The CG put out an 'all ships' and a sail training vessel, 'Maybe' came to us from the buoys outside Yarmouth and towed us to East Cowes.

Phew! Relief all round, thank you Maybe!

I gave a large donation to the Portrush RNLI and the first thing that went over Maybe's deck was a case of beer!

The fuel problem was a blockage of the main feed from the tank caused by contaminated fuel picked up in rural Ireland from cans.

Easily resolved the next morning.
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Thanks, all these occurences are informative. Maybe is a lovely boat!
 
A minor anecdote (there are others) about RNLI statistic harvesting: I was skipper of a vessel crossing a busy UK commercial estuary, intending to enter a harbour. It was a sailing yacht, but we were a PDV.

The engine stumbled due to momentary fuel starvation, and I mentioned this to the local CG by VHF. It seemed a prudent call, just in case, but I specified we were *not, repeat not*, asking for assistance and it was not, repeat not even a Pan-Pan.

' Carry on keep us informed' came the reply.

As we safely entered harbour, an all weather lifeboat with several volunteers O/B followed us in.
They tied up nearby, and, being tough and experienced mariners, spoke to me cheerfully, they obviously knew there was 'nothing to report' apart from them being dragged out of bed/the pub etc for no good reason.

However they politely asked me to sign a piece of paper, and it had huge words like rescue, lifesaving, etc printed on it.
It was late, they were jolly chaps and we had a bit of banter, and in the circs. I didn't quibble about signing a bit of paper, who would?

I'm sure the non-occasion will be exaggerated as a heroic lifesaving battle with the elements etc, by the fund raising/advertising dept,.

Why aren't the directors and PR publicity people also volunteers, as well as the yellow wellies on deck?
 
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Gary Fox said:
I'm sure the non-occasion will be exaggerated as a heroic lifesaving battle with the elements etc, by the fund raising/advertising dept,.
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By 'I'm sure' do you actually mean 'I have actually no idea whatsoever'?

If you felt the engine miss a beat and you told the coastguard then presumably they thought (and perhaps you as well) that having someone stand by in case was quite a good idea?
 
1. I'm sure. Wake up and smell the coffee.

2. Negative to the bit in brackets, it was merely an update from me to them, of a thing which momentarily happened, without action being needed.
The local CG called a big rescue vessel out for no sane reason.
(A completely fair exception would be training volunteers or testing new kit , of course. If that was the case, it was kept covert).

3. In words of one syllable:

If I tell them a thing, it is so they know of it.
It was not a call for help, nor a call to to launch a life boat.
Do you get me? It should not be hard. Any words which are not clear, let me know.
 
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Gary Fox said:
1. I'm sure. Wake up and smell the coffee.

2. Negative to the bit in brackets, it was merely an update from me to them, of a thing which momentarily happened, without action being needed.
The local CG called a big rescue vessel out for no sane reason.
(A completely fair exception would be training volunteers or testing new kit , of course. If that was the case, it was kept covert).

3. In words of one syllable:

If I tell them a thing, it is so they know of it.
It was not a call for help, nor a call to to launch a life boat.
Do you get me? It should not be hard. Any words which are not clear, let me know.
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As above.... Why call them (CG) if you were so confident all was well?
Do you not think someone in the CG, who has no idea of your ability or experience is going to think ' he's called us so he must be concerned' is hardly going to ignore the possibility of the problem getting worse? They deal with numpties every day, how do you propose to identify the more competent yachties like yourself?
 
NorthUp said:
As above.... Why call them (CG) if you were so confident all was well?
Do you not think someone in the CG, who has no idea of your ability or experience is going to think ' he's called us so he must be concerned' is hardly going to ignore the possibility of the problem getting worse? They deal with numpties every day, how do you propose to identify the more competent yachties like yourself?
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Because it's a potential disadvantage if the situation deteriorates for whatever reason then action may need to be taken. Think of it as the traffic light moving to Amber, you don't do anything, you just get ready. You only go on green.
 
NorthUp said:
As above.... Why call them (CG) if you were so confident all was well?
Do you not think someone in the CG, who has no idea of your ability or experience is going to think ' he's called us so he must be concerned' is hardly going to ignore the possibility of the problem getting worse? They deal with numpties every day, how do you propose to identify the more competent yachties like yourself?
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That's a very fair couple of questions.
Some time ago, the act of speaking to a coastguard was automatically, axiomatically, to speak to a seasoned local (ish) sailor who had joined HMCG.
A man who would not be answering the radio, unless he was considered to be capable, through years of personal experience of visualising, or even feeling in his vitals, what the conversation was about, and what response was needed; whether a quiet word to say, 'that's fine, thanks for letting me know, ' or ' ok repeat your position, help is on its way..'etc..
The only way to identify myself as 'not a numpty' (not sure of the definition of the term..) would be through my calm tone of voice and reassuring words.
Disclaimer, 'not all coastguards' etc, J****n if you read this :)
 
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