RNLI and anchors

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

We can argue for ever, as we always do, as to what is a good and what is a bad anchor - but the reality is if you want to buy an anchor then the cost over time is negligible. You can measure time over the lifetime of the anchor, the life time of the yacht or the number of times you anchor - but the cost is really not very much (especially compared with the cost of the vessel or the value of the crew). We need to factor in that the crew expect a reasonable anchor and insurance company demand that the anchor is certificated, and Spade is certificated as being pretty good, better than, say, a Delta.

Many of the new Shannon boats actually tested the anchor before it was bought, for their specific boat, and then the fleet.

Thus crew had 'ownership' (they or a sister station had tested and approved it - as being better than. a Delta and maybe better than other options), the Classification Society approved, the insurance company cannot argue - but you want to argue.


beggars belief. You volunteer,

What do you want (there are lots of cheap CQRs sitting decorating gardens) - see how your mates react. Why exactly would you want to carry - a Delta, or one certificated as SHHP, or maybe you would want to carry an FOB - that some members here would only use as a lunch hook.


In this example, Quo Vadis off New Brighton on the Mersey the lifeboat, Hoylake, was called out by an individual on shore (who took the photographs), the inflatable, New Brighton, had been called out on another rescue and was coincidentally on hand. The owner of the yacht said he was fine and thank you but he did not need to be 'rescued'. Hoylake said 'not a problem, we'll anchor alongside you in case you change your mind and until the weather abates'. The owner under the moral pressure, or the reality, said OK come aboard etc.

The owner could have been pigheaded - what sort of anchor would you want on your lifeboat (this lifeboat had 2 x Deltas).

I visited the lifeboat station, Hoylake, about 2 weeks after the event and spoke to the lifeboat crew who had been on the call out. I had had email correspondence with the owner of Quo Vadis.

The yacht owner knew of the imminent deterioration of the weather but missed a, or the, window (tide?) to find good shelter (Preston Marina?) and dropped his anchor as the wind started to build, to Strong Gale. He was single handed (so no wife on board suing for divorce). I simply don't know the area but I believe there is some sort of breakwater further down river - but it does not appear to have had much impact on the seas. I did go to New Brighton with a crew member from Hoylake - but the Mersey was a flat calm (with some modern art on the beach in the form of large penguins!)

View attachment 138396

Above - The man with the white hat, helmet, is off the Hoylake boat. They have a line board Quo Vadis, the Hoylake boat is off image to the left with the other end of the line. The 'shout' was 'pre-Shannon'.

View attachment 138397

I don't know the precise timing during the period that the Spade anchors were approved but the RNLI had incidences, 'shouts', like the Quo Vadis, they did anchor or might have need to anchor in adverse conditions. The boats needed to be equipped with Classification Society anchors - and historically they had carried Deltas, but they could also have carried CQRs or Bruce - all 3 of which were High Holding Power anchors. Moving forward to the Shannon era and a chance to upgrade the anchors there was a new choice of anchor, certificated Super High Holding Power, Rocna, Manson's Supreme, Anchor Right's Excel (and maybe SARCA) and Spade. The CEO of the RNLI at this time used a Spade, and enthused on same, on his own yacht, see a contemporaneous thread. I heard, anecdotally, that Blue Water offered samples of Spade to individual stations to test (clever move).

And the rest is history - Lewmar's Epsilon missed the boat and Rocna may have discontinued their Certification (don't know- but it is still SHHP quality to me). Anchor Right and Manson did not think to offer samples - why would you - its all about, luck - timing and having a product champion.

Serendipity at its best.

Jonathan

I'm trying to get my head around what happened to the yacht. It's not very clear from the text, and I'm not sure what I'm seeing in the photograph. Did it sink, and the lifeboat is on top of it, or is it merely hidden bya wave?

 

[Juan Twothree]

Thanks, do you switch off the engines while doing so? Or if during this maneuver the anchor drags(God forbid) or the chain breaks, will the lifeboat be 100% lost?
I mean, the safety mixture for a lifeboat is very different from a normal cruising sailboat where being at anchor (and with relatively small engines) can be a significant proportion of the time.

On the Atlantic 85 we shut down one engine and tilt it up, so that we've still got an engine to get home on if we damage the other one in the shallow water.

Most of the anchor cable is rope, with only a few metres of chain. Once the anchor is holding and the rope made off we apply half power astern on the one engine, to stretch the rope. Then, if we need to bug out we just take the power off and the boat surges forward away from danger, as if on a giant piece of elastic.

The anchor rope is 82 metres, and at full extent will stretch by three boat lengths, about 25m.

It sounds crazy but it does work. It's not a thing we do often in anger, but when we have to we have to.
For instance I've used it to pass a towline to a boat rolling around in the breakers on a lee shore. Not a life saved, but definitely a boat saved.

 

[Juan Twothree]

I'm trying to get my head around what happened to the yacht. It's not very clear from the text, and I'm not sure what I'm seeing in the photograph. Did it sink, and the lifeboat is on top of it, or is it merely hidden bya wave?

I found this online

Wirral lifeboats rescue lone sailor stranded in Force 10 gale

Please bear in mind that this is from a local rag, and the RNLI can't be blamed for any inaccuracies, or the hyperbole, in the account.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I found this online

Wirral lifeboats rescue lone sailor stranded in Force 10 gale

Please bear in mind that this is from a local rag, and the RNLI can't be blamed for any inaccuracies, or the hyperbole, in the account.

Inaccuracy and hyperbole aren’t restricted to local rags. Even the esteemed BBC seem to indulge, as often as not.

 

[Yachtingsouthwest]

The RNLI seem to make good use of the deltas on their ILBs, the 4kg being used on the D class and 6kg on the Atlantic 75 and 85 they seem to be put to high loads when used in surf for veering.

 

[Neeves]

I'm trying to get my head around what happened to the yacht. It's not very clear from the text, and I'm not sure what I'm seeing in the photograph. Did it sink, and the lifeboat is on top of it, or is it merely hidden bya wave?

Hidden by a wave, which only seem large when viewed in that picture. I did not notice much inaccuracy nor hyperbole in the report - except maybe for the bit about Force 10.

I imagine trying to motor forward, to take the load off the rode and retrieve the rode simultaneously might have been difficult - single handed. Also given the apparent wave sizes turning the yacht round to go up river (is the marina up river?) might have been quite exciting. One of the lifeboat crew said he noted that the anchor shank was bent when retrieved and on deck - but this was neither confirmed by the yacht's owner nor the anchor maker. The shank design was subsequently modified (but this modification was for other reasons (or the same reasons but a different event).

Jonathan

 

[zoidberg]

There's a procedure we use .... we anchor the boat, then veer down on the anchor cable to retrieve someone

What's the spec of your anchor cable?

 

[Daydream believer]

Maybe if it's the choice of our rescue service it's possible that it may be a very good anchor?
They ain't using CQRs?

They clearly do not have to step aboard to the bow from a pontoon. That bar on the CQR is specially designed as an intermediate step. Only reason we have an anchor on our boat. No need for one other wise.

 

[Juan Twothree]

What's the spec of your anchor cable?

We've got a 6kg Delta anchor, attached to 9m of 1/4" chain, then 82m of 12mm polyamide as warp (I'll pretend I knew that, but I had to look it up).

If we're veering down and still short of our target having paid that lot out, we can bend on the 66m towline as well if needed.

As veering generally takes place in shallow water, the pull on the anchor is satisfyingly horizontal by the time we apply much load on it.

 

[Hacker]

I only had to veer down once, at the last minute we lost the hydraulics on one engine (every time we went into reverse the engine kicked up). As we were trying to get a yacht off the shore at the time I was very glad of the attachement!

 

[geem]

They clearly do not have to step aboard to the bow from a pontoon. That bar on the CQR is specially designed as an intermediate step. Only reason we have an anchor on our boat. No need for one other wise.

So you don't consider the ability to anchor even necessary? Emergency use if your engine fails? I suspect that no sane yachty would consider an anchor optional. What is the world coming to

 

[NormanS]

I assumed that he was joking.

So you don't consider the ability to anchor even necessary? Emergency use if your engine fails? I suspect that no sane yachty would consider an anchor optional. What is the world coming to
[/QUOTE

 

[Daydream believer]

So you don't consider the ability to anchor even necessary? Emergency use if your engine fails? I suspect that no sane yachty would consider an anchor optional. What is the world coming to

5 times in 18 years. One to try it out ( No need to try anymore, besides the mud makes the decks dirty) & 4 were minor emergency (Impellor change, no fuel- so waiting for daylight to sail ito marina berth, no water in marina creek etc) but only one a real emergency ( damaged rudder) but even then I would have got away without it.
So I was being a bit flippant- sorry

 

[Neeves]

I think some people need a life.

Sad, so sad

Jonathan

 

[Daydream believer]

I think some people need a life.
Sad, so sad
Jonathan

So why did you say that-- Just because you have a "thing " about anchors. I sometimes get seriously seasick at anchorage. I even suffer in some marinas. I have 2 moorings for my other boats, I often get queazy if I am moored on those for more than half an hour.
My sailing area is the Thames & Netherland to Camaret Sometimes further south.
In the Thames region I do not see any point in anchoring, because once one has been up one muddy creek, one has moored up them all. Staring at mud banks holds no interest for me. As for looking at seals- I would rather go clubbing
There is no reason to moor anywhere along the coast, between Ijmuiden & Le Havre
West of Cherbourg is different, but risky. Moving a mooring in rocky bays can be dangerous if one has to move at night when SH. It takes ages to get my anchor up & is hard work. Besides there are ample marinas where one can step ashore , walk about freely & enjoy the surroundings. Some of the areas like Treguier, Lezardrieux, St Peter Port are excellent. & not to be missed.
On top of that i would have to lug a dinghy around. Pump the darned thing up then deflate it, Launch & recover every time. Not to mention the life threatening action of getting in & out of it That is 1.5 hours of my life gone straight away. Plus , rowing ashore & hoping it would still be there when I returned.
What is the point of anchoring?

 

[Juan Twothree]

I do not see any point in anchoring, because once one has been up one muddy creek, one has moored up them all. Staring at mud banks holds no interest for me.

Maurice Griffiths always made muddy creeks sound so appealing. Listening to the church clock chiming, cows lowing, the scent of the fields wafting across the water.....

But I know exactly what you mean.

 

[Neeves]

Daydream

It has nothing too do with having a thing about anchors - many people anchor, most of whom don't have a thing about anchors (I hope ). They anchor and the whole experience is a non event, nothing remarkable - maybe because they read and assimilate information on anchors and anchoring . If you are sea sick at anchor - you have either chosen the wrong anchorage, the wrong weather, the wrong food - or the wrong 'money pit'.

I'd have to say - having a propensity for sea sickness and participating in sailing...... explains much.

Being polite - Anchoring means you can avoid people with whom you do not relate.

However - I am exceptionally grateful that people are willing to fund marinas as these locations also house places to re-fuel, fill up with fresh water etc etc. Without the captive customer base the financial backers would have invested their funds in a gym or fast food outlet (neither of which I frequent) as I get exercise from .... or ..... anchoring and I can anchor near places where we can catch fresh, wild fish, as opposed to polluted, fish. If you prefer a cess pool for your anchorage - go for it.

Jonathan

I remain convinced, some people need to get a life. But if you would rather go clubbing - you are kidding us (again) - so get a life.

 

[Neeves]

No-one running their engines here, no pollution, no unwelcome noise, no unnecessary finance, fresh crayfish off Breaksea Island, a sense of achievement having got there, a nice hill to offer free exercise, no swell or chop (if you listen to the weather forecast) and if the forecast looks questionable

Plenty of shelter up here, but I suppose people would complain about the Black Swans.



Daydream stick to your marina - leave wilderness for those who appreciate it.



Each to their own . It takes all sorts.

Jonathan

 

[Refueler]

Trying to understand point of the original starting post ????

Seems to just be an excuse to have another 'novel' about anchors. Which most know - there are a number of subjects that always lead to 'high horse' biased opinions.... anchors / rodes being one of the worst.

Years ago with the 'vers 1' forum ... worst was Blue Ensigns !!

 

[Neeves]

Trying to understand point of the original starting post ????

Seems to just be an excuse to have another 'novel' about anchors. Which most know - there are a number of subjects that always lead to 'high horse' biased opinions.... anchors / rodes being one of the worst.

Years ago with the 'vers 1' forum ... worst was Blue Ensigns !!

There is a very simple rule, obviously difficult for some to understand

If you don't like anchor threads - don't read them.

Reading any thread is voluntary.

Its strange how some feel compelled to read them and then be critical.

It takes all sorts.

Jonathan