SaltIre
Well-Known Member
Do you have staff to fly your ensign?
RNLI and anchors
- Thread starter Neeves
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Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
These days my cruising is not so much about the sailing, but more about the arriving & the place that I am visiting. Plus the people I meet. I have never been to Poole Quay but it might be nice. I would have gone there if Covid had not happened. I had intended to do another round UK via the Cally canal trip. Yes, I can drive to all points. However, the banter at every port has been great the last 2 trips.
For instance, I opened a gate for a chap in Ballycastle at 07.00 one morning & ended up talking to him for 1.25 hours. He was borne in Beirute. Was a friend of Yassa Arafat & was slung out of Palestine along with him & ended up in Argentina. He had been in N Ireland for 17 years & was the Chairman of the local Co'op. He was instrumental in the building of the harbour.
The next morning, at the same gate, I engaged in a 45 minute chat with another chap.
I would never have had those conversations if I had been stuck on a mooring. Less likely driving in my car.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
Being single handed I do not bother when in the Uk. I know where I come from-- & ( oddly enough) exactly where I am going .
geem
Well-Known Member
I find it a bit sad that people who never anchor post negative stuff in an anchor thread. What's your problem? If you don't want to anchor and you live for marinas then post about great marinas or bad ones. This is a bit like BBC news where you only get crap news. What happened to good debate and positive posts?
I love to learn stuff on a daily basis. I am never to old to learn and debate is healthy. Let's just try and get along
I love to learn stuff on a daily basis. I am never to old to learn and debate is healthy. Let's just try and get along
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
Do you not think it is equally sad that because someone gets seasick at anchor that by #34 he is told that he needs to get a life. When I posted comment about debate in marinas I was ridiculed
Is it not reasonable that he kicks back with a few comments from the other side of the fence. This current craft has not been my only boat & I was sailing long before a lot of the marinas we see now were ever built. So I do have some experience of anchoring.
I have been feeding fish with the contents of my innards for years. You cannot understand how often I have had to get in the dinghy & go for a row round the boat to get rid of nausea. I have woken in my berth in the morning unable to move due to violent migraines.
But Neeves says I need to get a life. Really?
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Neeves
Well-Known Member
Well....this developed into an interesting series of accounts with a touch of humour thrown in.
Its amazing what a little provocation will achieve. The participants were hardly statistically sound but there seemed to be only one extolling the virtues of marinas and a number of delightful pictures of isolated locations, some of which might have been muddy creeks - but no less delightful. If the replies were a fair representation - then anchoring is popular, marina dwelling - less so.
On seasickness - maybe there are levels of seasickness - but I confess to have suffered, though not since we bought out cat, to the point where a lack of consciousness seemed positively welcoming - if one were to voluntarily sail suffering as such every time then masochism comes to mind and I have to say - get a life. Take up golf - think of the number of different golf courses you could visit - and enjoy the walk with like minded people - and no fear of sea sickness. As has been mentioned all of these marinas can be visited by car, possibly bus - and if they are that attractive to you you can do so, visit, without the fear on every trip of seasickness. For random conversations - you can get them in a supermarket and for deeper conversations - most of us have neighbours. What is more difficult to find is complete isolation, no mobile phone coverage, no roads, no aircraft and such places are generally unspoilt - no mines, no railway lines - no mark of modernity nor pollution - and they usually present a challenge (mental and physical) to get there - and there are few such challenges left in life.
Interesting that we, mostly, use our anchors - but I do not recall people complain about their tenders - we accept a dinghy as part of the kit. There can be as much activity in raising the mainsail as launching a dinghy - I don't recall seeing complaints. Some see virtue in rowing -exercise, silence.
I repeat what others say - stick to your marinas - it leaves the splendid isolation to those of us who enjoy and value it. I am sorry you suffer from seasickness and understand why you cannot get a life - so valued by most of the contributors here. I did note a tinge of contempt of those who enjoy exploring muddy, to you - boring - creeks - almost as if you thought- 'these people need to get a life'.
No anchorage is the same, they are all different - presenting different environments (including different weather) - which might explain why anchor or anchoring threads are all well populated - we all have something to learn. We mostly all use our anchors.
If anyone finds anchoring threads boring - the answer is in your own hands - be a bit more selective in what you read. If you don't like long posts - open your eyes and if they are over 8 lines long - don't complain - read posts of 7 lines or less.
Jonathan
Its amazing what a little provocation will achieve. The participants were hardly statistically sound but there seemed to be only one extolling the virtues of marinas and a number of delightful pictures of isolated locations, some of which might have been muddy creeks - but no less delightful. If the replies were a fair representation - then anchoring is popular, marina dwelling - less so.
On seasickness - maybe there are levels of seasickness - but I confess to have suffered, though not since we bought out cat, to the point where a lack of consciousness seemed positively welcoming - if one were to voluntarily sail suffering as such every time then masochism comes to mind and I have to say - get a life. Take up golf - think of the number of different golf courses you could visit - and enjoy the walk with like minded people - and no fear of sea sickness. As has been mentioned all of these marinas can be visited by car, possibly bus - and if they are that attractive to you you can do so, visit, without the fear on every trip of seasickness. For random conversations - you can get them in a supermarket and for deeper conversations - most of us have neighbours. What is more difficult to find is complete isolation, no mobile phone coverage, no roads, no aircraft and such places are generally unspoilt - no mines, no railway lines - no mark of modernity nor pollution - and they usually present a challenge (mental and physical) to get there - and there are few such challenges left in life.
Interesting that we, mostly, use our anchors - but I do not recall people complain about their tenders - we accept a dinghy as part of the kit. There can be as much activity in raising the mainsail as launching a dinghy - I don't recall seeing complaints. Some see virtue in rowing -exercise, silence.
I repeat what others say - stick to your marinas - it leaves the splendid isolation to those of us who enjoy and value it. I am sorry you suffer from seasickness and understand why you cannot get a life - so valued by most of the contributors here. I did note a tinge of contempt of those who enjoy exploring muddy, to you - boring - creeks - almost as if you thought- 'these people need to get a life'.
No anchorage is the same, they are all different - presenting different environments (including different weather) - which might explain why anchor or anchoring threads are all well populated - we all have something to learn. We mostly all use our anchors.
If anyone finds anchoring threads boring - the answer is in your own hands - be a bit more selective in what you read. If you don't like long posts - open your eyes and if they are over 8 lines long - don't complain - read posts of 7 lines or less.
Jonathan
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Tranona
Well-Known Member
Fine, but I spent a lifetime engaging with people from all walks of life all round the world. I go sailing to get away from that. Very happy with my own company anchored in beautiful surroundings enjoying good food wine and music.
I keep my boat in a marina - fantastic as I can be sailing 30 minutes from leaving home but have no need of marinas when cruising unless I need supplies.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
To each his own. But I would not dream of telling you that you "need a life" & I trust that you would not do likewise to me. (Not so sure about the music though
?)Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
There you go again
I have a life, thanks.
The wife plays golf & I go sailing. It works for us both
Neeves
Well-Known Member
The 'another' provided information that the RNLI was looking at replacement of their Spade anchors in the new RNLI Shannon Class lifeboats. Providing some foundation to this information the member said he worked in the RNLI Head Office in Poole.
To me if the RNLI were to discontinue use of Spade anchors this suggest there was a fault, or faults, in the product or there was a significantly better anchor available.
I checked the information provided by the member as if there was a change then it would be of value for other members here to know the back ground.
This is part of the reply I received from a representative fully employed by the RNLI in Poole.
quote
Currently, there is no change in process and the same Spade anchor is continuing to be used across our Shannon fleet, where trials are not in place. There are no plans to replace all of the anchors in the Shannon or lifeboat fleet.
unquote
The fact that the thread has drifted slightly is .... not unusual.
Basically the information provided by the forum member had no substance at all - the RNLI seem happy with performance and they have not found a better anchor than Spade.
Thank you for the opportunity to underline this information.
Jonathan
NormanS
Well-Known Member
I still fail to see the relevance to us yacht owners, of what the RNLI chooses as anchors for lifeboats. Their usage is entirely different from ours. On the few occasions when a lifeboat anchors, it is still fully crewed, so an anchor watch can be maintained, and if they are anchoring to veer down to a casualty, their engine(s) are still running.
We anchor overnight, or to go ashore, leaving the boat unattended, so the performance of our anchors is far more important than the (mostly unused) anchor carried by a lifeboat.
We anchor overnight, or to go ashore, leaving the boat unattended, so the performance of our anchors is far more important than the (mostly unused) anchor carried by a lifeboat.
Neeves
Well-Known Member
Norman - all so true.
There was no suggestion that because the RNLI used an anchor you should buy one. But a member here said that the RNLI were making a change to their choice. People need strong motivation to change their anchors, including the RTNLI - and to change so soon after some rigorous testing was to me - interesting.
Now if you are suggesting the invalid comment should have been left unchallenged and that no correction made - then I have to question - why not? Why is this not to be challenged and clarified.
The point was different.
People buy anchors having conducted their own research and weighted the information that collate for its relevance. People, I have to assume, rate conclusions drawn from many sources.
The invalid comment was that the RNLI were to change their anchor - which would only occur if there was a fault or a better option. This proved not to be the case, they have found nothing wrong with the anchor they have not found anything better. They are not changing their anchors. If there had been something wrong, if they had found a better anchor - people would have taken note and weighed up (or down) the conclusions. They decide if the information is relevant or not - I was just trying to define the veracity of the information (that proved invalid) and if it had been valid I wanted to know the WHY as I use a Spade anchor - so I had selfish reasons.
Maybe you can tell me why I should have ignored the base statement - that prompted my investigation and the thread.
Jonathan
There was no suggestion that because the RNLI used an anchor you should buy one. But a member here said that the RNLI were making a change to their choice. People need strong motivation to change their anchors, including the RTNLI - and to change so soon after some rigorous testing was to me - interesting.
Now if you are suggesting the invalid comment should have been left unchallenged and that no correction made - then I have to question - why not? Why is this not to be challenged and clarified.
The point was different.
People buy anchors having conducted their own research and weighted the information that collate for its relevance. People, I have to assume, rate conclusions drawn from many sources.
The invalid comment was that the RNLI were to change their anchor - which would only occur if there was a fault or a better option. This proved not to be the case, they have found nothing wrong with the anchor they have not found anything better. They are not changing their anchors. If there had been something wrong, if they had found a better anchor - people would have taken note and weighed up (or down) the conclusions. They decide if the information is relevant or not - I was just trying to define the veracity of the information (that proved invalid) and if it had been valid I wanted to know the WHY as I use a Spade anchor - so I had selfish reasons.
Maybe you can tell me why I should have ignored the base statement - that prompted my investigation and the thread.
Jonathan
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
Just out of interest ( yes I know I do not anchor, but does not mean I am not interested) Does the type of boat have a bearing on the anchor one might use. ie my boat shears about all over the place on a mooring if the tiller is left to port (as required by the mooring lease holders) Sometimes doing 360s. So an anchor that sets quick but does not necessarily have such a great holding power might be better.
I assume that as the tide turns every anchor must have to re set itself. But do some boats require a different anchor for this reason? It has been mentioned that the RNLI shear on the spade to ferry glide inshore under power. So does that suggest it is better for that purpose ( ie accomodating side movement) & not necessarily best for a boat that sits nicely to its anchor swinging only with the tide?
NormanS
Well-Known Member
Jonathan, I have no idea what comment it was that your original post was referring to. You didn't quote it, and I've been away sailing for the past six weeks, so haven't been following your, or anyone else's anchor threads.
Just bear in mind that because a double-decker bus uses a particular type of reversing mirror, that doesn't mean that we would be encouraged to fit that mirror to our cars. ?
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
AFAIC the type of boat bears little or no relevance to the type of anchor chosen.
The use of the anchor to ‘shear’ as you mentioned has no relevance either. You can drudge or shear most any anchor by altering the scope.
All anchors will reset themselves. Some do it better than others. The Spade does it very well and much better than a CQR in my experience.
Neeves
Well-Known Member
Don't worry Norman you did not miss much - and I intentionally did not refer to the original comment/thread
I beg to differ Norman. I wish that some people did use the same mirrors on their cars as are used on double decker buses - they might then notice vehicles overtaking (or whatever) and not cause heart palpitations.
Sadly I think mirrors are too big a thread drift to attract much of a following.
Now Daydreams post could refresh the whole thread - but I'm reluctant to get involved, yet (JM has done well - very succinct) you might complain at the length of my prose - and that would not do, however justified.
Take care, stay safe
Jonathan
TNLI
Well-Known Member
Just for the record, I've stated quite a number of times that the RNLI uses the UK Spade and it's no 1 for performance, BUT, they do get bent. The Shannon is one of 7 different types of lifeboat, and is slowly replacing the Mersey class.
Shannon Class Lifeboat - the Latest All Weather Lifeboat (rnli.org)
Alas the RNLI did not ask the manufacturer of the UK Spade to supply the anchors without the daft yellow paint, and do a better job hot dipping to prevent rust stains that are not popular with private owners. If they had done that, it would have encouraged private owners to buy the UK Spade rather than the Rocna and other dubious anchors that have weak shanks or fail to reset after a 180 degree veer.
The RNLI Spades don't rust cos they wash their boats off with fresh water after use and normally return to the boat shed. I'm actually trying to find a small used one that has lost most of its yellow paint and has started to rust to buy.
The Admiralty fishermans anchor is indeed a tad too heavy for volunteers to handle, and having done some reseach on which anchor to use in deep water where you simply do not have enough chain, I'm convinced the solution is a new 3 piece Bronze Herreshoff, as no other anchor can match its performance in terms of functioning with a 2 to 1 rope rode, (Obviously you should use some chain),
This article is a real good one about why the Herreshoff is such a great anchor for deep water, rocks, heavy weed, cobblestones and gravel. It's sort of average in mud and rather below average in sand:
The Herreshoff Three-Piece Stock Anchor | WoodenBoat Magazine
bronze1.DOC (live.com)
Good tests with UK Spade, genuine CQR and Herreshoff: Anchor Reset Tests - Practical Sailor (practical-sailor.com)
Anchor tests: I asked an old friend about volcanic sand, as it's a rather odd type of beach or sea bed, and although I have anchored in it just off the North Western and Western coast of Grand Cannery, it's very variable in holding terms. In other words the holding will vary a lot across the sea bed, even though it might look even when filmed, due to different gain sizes from one patch to another, he also pointed out the same is true of most sand and even some mud bottoms. So any test done in sand or mixed sand & mud would need to be done a multitude of times to get a reasonable variance figure.
So it's highly likely that the majority of anchor test results are wildly innacurate, so you just don't know if they are using the same area or not. That's why you need a variance figure.
If you mention letters or messages from the RNLI HQ, can you please post a copy so I can see who it's from, or PM me for a Spam address to send it to, I can then go and visit them for a chat about what the plan is for the Admiralty fishermans replacement, as the bronze Herreshoff is a fair bit lighter. Many of their boats don't need a deep water anchor cos they don't go out into deep water, or have to deal with rocky sea beds or heavy weed. Those that do would benefit from having a Bronze Herreshoff available.
PS: One reason I'm looking at a small UK Spade, is that I want to use a secondary main that has a stronger shank than a Danforth, but sets and resets as fast. When I double anchor I don't set the secondary main, cos that makes it difficult to reposition and recover singlehanded.
Shannon Class Lifeboat - the Latest All Weather Lifeboat (rnli.org)
Alas the RNLI did not ask the manufacturer of the UK Spade to supply the anchors without the daft yellow paint, and do a better job hot dipping to prevent rust stains that are not popular with private owners. If they had done that, it would have encouraged private owners to buy the UK Spade rather than the Rocna and other dubious anchors that have weak shanks or fail to reset after a 180 degree veer.
The RNLI Spades don't rust cos they wash their boats off with fresh water after use and normally return to the boat shed. I'm actually trying to find a small used one that has lost most of its yellow paint and has started to rust to buy.
The Admiralty fishermans anchor is indeed a tad too heavy for volunteers to handle, and having done some reseach on which anchor to use in deep water where you simply do not have enough chain, I'm convinced the solution is a new 3 piece Bronze Herreshoff, as no other anchor can match its performance in terms of functioning with a 2 to 1 rope rode, (Obviously you should use some chain),
This article is a real good one about why the Herreshoff is such a great anchor for deep water, rocks, heavy weed, cobblestones and gravel. It's sort of average in mud and rather below average in sand:
The Herreshoff Three-Piece Stock Anchor | WoodenBoat Magazine
bronze1.DOC (live.com)
Good tests with UK Spade, genuine CQR and Herreshoff: Anchor Reset Tests - Practical Sailor (practical-sailor.com)
Anchor tests: I asked an old friend about volcanic sand, as it's a rather odd type of beach or sea bed, and although I have anchored in it just off the North Western and Western coast of Grand Cannery, it's very variable in holding terms. In other words the holding will vary a lot across the sea bed, even though it might look even when filmed, due to different gain sizes from one patch to another, he also pointed out the same is true of most sand and even some mud bottoms. So any test done in sand or mixed sand & mud would need to be done a multitude of times to get a reasonable variance figure.
So it's highly likely that the majority of anchor test results are wildly innacurate, so you just don't know if they are using the same area or not. That's why you need a variance figure.
If you mention letters or messages from the RNLI HQ, can you please post a copy so I can see who it's from, or PM me for a Spam address to send it to, I can then go and visit them for a chat about what the plan is for the Admiralty fishermans replacement, as the bronze Herreshoff is a fair bit lighter. Many of their boats don't need a deep water anchor cos they don't go out into deep water, or have to deal with rocky sea beds or heavy weed. Those that do would benefit from having a Bronze Herreshoff available.
PS: One reason I'm looking at a small UK Spade, is that I want to use a secondary main that has a stronger shank than a Danforth, but sets and resets as fast. When I double anchor I don't set the secondary main, cos that makes it difficult to reposition and recover singlehanded.
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Yachtingsouthwest
Well-Known Member
I have finally found a Uk Spade this one however has lost its yellow paint.
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NormanS
Well-Known Member
Oh No! Not again already.?
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