jimi
Well-known member
I think the usual way to deal with that is to take a couple of the sliders out, certainly thats what I've done on training boats.
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Rigging a Third Reef
- Thread starter Rich_F
- Start date
Rich_F
New member
Re: Eyeing up a mouse
Good point, Ken.
I was thinking about having a continuous mousing line between reefs 2 and 3 with a loop in it. But I need a compact, quick and easy way of connecting the reefing line to the loop in order to pull it through.
Maybe scrapping the adjustable outhaul and using the sheave for a reefing line isn't such a bad idea!
Rich
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Good point, Ken.
I was thinking about having a continuous mousing line between reefs 2 and 3 with a loop in it. But I need a compact, quick and easy way of connecting the reefing line to the loop in order to pull it through.
Maybe scrapping the adjustable outhaul and using the sheave for a reefing line isn't such a bad idea!
Rich
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tome
New member
Re: Going to windward
Haven't tried this yet (thank God!), but I imagine the reefed main would probably be more efficient as the trysail is loose footed. Having said that, the trysail is designed to work to windward so I'll stand corrected - just instinct.
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Haven't tried this yet (thank God!), but I imagine the reefed main would probably be more efficient as the trysail is loose footed. Having said that, the trysail is designed to work to windward so I'll stand corrected - just instinct.
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MainlySteam
New member
Some (perhaps many) boats you have to drop some of the slides out the gate in the mast track. I always do this anyway for the second reef on as our main is pretty heavy cloth and it is easier to just drop some of the slides out the gate and get the reef tack cringle down than to pull the reef tack out around the folds of sail which are sitting on top of the boom.
John
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John
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Aeolus_IV
New member
See what you mean, but this is starting to sound like unnecessary fiddling - probably just when you don't want it. Not sure that this would be possible on Aeolus as the slider gate is a little way above the boom and quite small and fiddly. Bit academic for us though - no third reefing point. Will probably get one put in when the main is next serviced - nice and deep.
Jeff.
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Jeff.
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vyv_cox
Well-known member
Not sure if this has been commented on previously in the thread, it was up to 40+ posts when I first logged on. In the majority of cases it is not possible to get a third reef in a single line system with balance blocks because the pennant length required is greater than half of the boom length. Depends on exactly where the cringles were placed but on each of my boats with single line systems it was only possible to pull down just beyond the second reef before the balance block contacted the forward end of the boom.
I kept my ramshorns for the tack of the third reef, with a snap shackle on the outhaul that can be used for the clew. Once the sail is tamed in this way it is not too difficult to get a couple of turns of line through the third clew and around the boom.
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I kept my ramshorns for the tack of the third reef, with a snap shackle on the outhaul that can be used for the clew. Once the sail is tamed in this way it is not too difficult to get a couple of turns of line through the third clew and around the boom.
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tome
New member
Jeff
Good idea - it's a real comfort having a deep third reef when it comes on to blow, and can make all the difference between raw anxiety and pure enjoyment. I believe that many blue water cruisers forego a trysail in favour of a third reef. Even if you never use it, it's peace of mind.
Regards
Tom
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Good idea - it's a real comfort having a deep third reef when it comes on to blow, and can make all the difference between raw anxiety and pure enjoyment. I believe that many blue water cruisers forego a trysail in favour of a third reef. Even if you never use it, it's peace of mind.
Regards
Tom
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Twister_Ken
Well-known member
Re: Eyeing up a mouse
How often do you adjust the outhaul? In my case almost never, unless I'm looking for things to do on a quiet day.
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How often do you adjust the outhaul? In my case almost never, unless I'm looking for things to do on a quiet day.
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Twister_Ken
Well-known member
Re: Going to windward
Ditto. Only time I've ever set a trysail was to see if/how it worked. Never used one in anger. In fact, I could probably count the times I've sailed with 3 reefs in on the fingers of both hands.
But then again I've never done any long open sea passages where there was no chance to get out out of the way of an awful weather forecast.
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Ditto. Only time I've ever set a trysail was to see if/how it worked. Never used one in anger. In fact, I could probably count the times I've sailed with 3 reefs in on the fingers of both hands.
But then again I've never done any long open sea passages where there was no chance to get out out of the way of an awful weather forecast.
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S
Skyva_2
Guest
Re: Eyeing up a mouse
We substituted a third reef (leech line) for the outhaul and have never regretted it. All our lines come back to the cockpit, the best place to be in a blow when short handed. It makes for a lot of string but still better than single line reefing.
We race occasionally and the ability to get a third reef in quickly is also useful. Since our main is not loose footed I wonder how much use the outhaul was anyway. There is a fourth reef on the main but (touch wood) we have never needed it. We have reeved it once before sailing when a blow was forecast.
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We substituted a third reef (leech line) for the outhaul and have never regretted it. All our lines come back to the cockpit, the best place to be in a blow when short handed. It makes for a lot of string but still better than single line reefing.
We race occasionally and the ability to get a third reef in quickly is also useful. Since our main is not loose footed I wonder how much use the outhaul was anyway. There is a fourth reef on the main but (touch wood) we have never needed it. We have reeved it once before sailing when a blow was forecast.
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Aeolus_IV
New member
Re: Eyeing up a mouse
I adjust our outhaul every time we sail - it basically controls the draft in the bottom third of the main. Should be tight for upwind legs, and loose for down wind legs - comes from racing dinghies for years. You should also adjust the amount of upwind tightness depending on wind strength - in very, very light airs it should be tight then slackenning off as the wind increases to a point or maximum power, then you start tightening it up once again to de-power the main. In a yacht we should probably be tucking in a reef at the point where I'd be pulling the outhaul in and easing the kicker were reefing not an option.
Now I guess I've just done the equivalent of "teaching my grandmother to suck eggs".
Jeff.
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I adjust our outhaul every time we sail - it basically controls the draft in the bottom third of the main. Should be tight for upwind legs, and loose for down wind legs - comes from racing dinghies for years. You should also adjust the amount of upwind tightness depending on wind strength - in very, very light airs it should be tight then slackenning off as the wind increases to a point or maximum power, then you start tightening it up once again to de-power the main. In a yacht we should probably be tucking in a reef at the point where I'd be pulling the outhaul in and easing the kicker were reefing not an option.
Now I guess I've just done the equivalent of "teaching my grandmother to suck eggs".
Jeff.
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Twister_Ken
Well-known member
Tweaking
Used to all that when racing, even had a calibration strip at the end of the boom so we could record and replicate settings for wind strength and direction; we used to adjust halyard tensions for the same reason. Still do it sometimes (although less scientifically) when cruising, but it really is for my own amusement, rather than looking for the extra tenth of a knot. Similarly my main has a flattener and a cunningham, which I haven't touched since I had a little bit of extra fullness cut out of the leech.
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Used to all that when racing, even had a calibration strip at the end of the boom so we could record and replicate settings for wind strength and direction; we used to adjust halyard tensions for the same reason. Still do it sometimes (although less scientifically) when cruising, but it really is for my own amusement, rather than looking for the extra tenth of a knot. Similarly my main has a flattener and a cunningham, which I haven't touched since I had a little bit of extra fullness cut out of the leech.
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Aeolus_IV
New member
Re: Tweaking
Ken,
I humbly offer my apologies for my earlier post if I have offended. In my defence I can only say that when sailing I'm always trying to get the best out of the boat and so am an obsessive fiddler - nothing is too small or difficult to avoid being tweaked.
Regards, Jeff.
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Ken,
I humbly offer my apologies for my earlier post if I have offended. In my defence I can only say that when sailing I'm always trying to get the best out of the boat and so am an obsessive fiddler - nothing is too small or difficult to avoid being tweaked.
Regards, Jeff.
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Twister_Ken
Well-known member
Re: Tweaking
No offence. And I still tweak when idle, usually in quiet weather when a bit more speed can be welcome. But usually I'm too busy, telling Madame to stop luffing.
(I'm now going to find somewhere to hide)
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No offence. And I still tweak when idle, usually in quiet weather when a bit more speed can be welcome. But usually I'm too busy, telling Madame to stop luffing.
(I'm now going to find somewhere to hide)
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andy_wilson
New member
I disagree!
My solution is slightly different but may be adapted by rigging your outhaul differently.
I have all three reef points in the boom, plus the clew outhaul. However I am 1 jammer short on the cabin top.
If the forecast is light to moderate I rig the outhaul and reefs 1 + 2. The outhaul is valuable in adapting from light airs - say up to 5 knots, through progressive flattening down up to about 15 knots. On my Fulmar beyond this I fully harden the halyard and apply backstay tension. By 18 to 20 knots my fully flat main is getting ready for a reef, depending upon gusts.
If the forecast is more robust I make the outhaul off at the boom and rig reefs 1, 2 and 3 to the cockpit in dubious anticipation.
I usually have at least 24 hours notice of perhaps needing the third reef, so the switch is easily acheived, usually in advance of the passage, but at least in advance of the watch!
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My solution is slightly different but may be adapted by rigging your outhaul differently.
I have all three reef points in the boom, plus the clew outhaul. However I am 1 jammer short on the cabin top.
If the forecast is light to moderate I rig the outhaul and reefs 1 + 2. The outhaul is valuable in adapting from light airs - say up to 5 knots, through progressive flattening down up to about 15 knots. On my Fulmar beyond this I fully harden the halyard and apply backstay tension. By 18 to 20 knots my fully flat main is getting ready for a reef, depending upon gusts.
If the forecast is more robust I make the outhaul off at the boom and rig reefs 1, 2 and 3 to the cockpit in dubious anticipation.
I usually have at least 24 hours notice of perhaps needing the third reef, so the switch is easily acheived, usually in advance of the passage, but at least in advance of the watch!
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coco
New member
Re: I don\'t get it
I think a Vancouver 28 is in category A. I thought a Twister is at least as long.
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I think a Vancouver 28 is in category A. I thought a Twister is at least as long.
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Aja
Well-known member
Re: Tweaking
Why oh why do they pinch?
As soon as you mention this, they get all huffy and say that.. "I was coming back on track just when you opened your mouth!"
Mainly due to them going "Oooooo is that a porpoise behind us?"
"That's a nice boat - could we afford that next time?"
I cant really complain when she says that - knowing that there will be a next time.
Of course - and this is directed to all the other tweakers out there - why is it that when you are sailing along nicely, you touch a bit of rope to improve things and immediately lose half a knot of speed?
Donald
Donald
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Why oh why do they pinch?
As soon as you mention this, they get all huffy and say that.. "I was coming back on track just when you opened your mouth!"
Mainly due to them going "Oooooo is that a porpoise behind us?"
"That's a nice boat - could we afford that next time?"
I cant really complain when she says that - knowing that there will be a next time.
Of course - and this is directed to all the other tweakers out there - why is it that when you are sailing along nicely, you touch a bit of rope to improve things and immediately lose half a knot of speed?
Donald
Donald
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tome
New member
Andy
Why not rig an extra jammer on the cabin top? I can certainly say that the last 2 times I rigged the 3rd reef was with very little warning. On the last occasion they started broadcasting warnings only after we'd already experienced the increase.
Regards
Tom
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Why not rig an extra jammer on the cabin top? I can certainly say that the last 2 times I rigged the 3rd reef was with very little warning. On the last occasion they started broadcasting warnings only after we'd already experienced the increase.
Regards
Tom
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jimi
Well-known member
Pinching
.. I know what you mean .. almost every inexperienced helm I know either pinches up or sails off on a broad reach!! Pinching drives me potty, I sit there mumbling trying to hint, saying the boat'll go faster if you crack off a degree or two but do they listen . NO .. its pinch, pinch, pinch until I manage to grab the wheel and do it PROPERLY. .... there I feel a lot better now!
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.. I know what you mean .. almost every inexperienced helm I know either pinches up or sails off on a broad reach!! Pinching drives me potty, I sit there mumbling trying to hint, saying the boat'll go faster if you crack off a degree or two but do they listen . NO .. its pinch, pinch, pinch until I manage to grab the wheel and do it PROPERLY. .... there I feel a lot better now!
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tome
New member
Re: Pinching
Jim
Have you tried telling them about the 'groove' and helping them to find it? Bit like a G-spot, that should get them going!
Tom
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Jim
Have you tried telling them about the 'groove' and helping them to find it? Bit like a G-spot, that should get them going!
Tom
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