DJE
Well-Known Member
Cable laying ship?
Chain ferry?
Chain ferry?
Riding lights
- Thread starter A_7
- Start date
landaftaf
Well-Known Member
I cant agree more ..... the point I am highlighting is the question whether mooring to a buoy constitutes being at anchor.
I am of the opinion it is ....... the rest falls into place.
if a fixed mooring is isolated and nowhere near a busy waterway - or likely to be 'invaded' by traffic - then its covered by rule 30
again ... I repeat that local authorities can and do determine what is required ...... changing the colregs to local regs
the original post asked the question if unlit vessels in the approaches to yarmouth should show riding lights - well if they are in the path of incoming vessels and are not observed by incoming vessels it comes under rule 30, and as vessels on buoys are deemed at anchor the rest falls into place.
so it looks like your fixed anchorage is in an area that is deemed by the local authorities as being exempt .... ok - so its exempt, no problems ....
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I am of the opinion it is ....... the rest falls into place.
if a fixed mooring is isolated and nowhere near a busy waterway - or likely to be 'invaded' by traffic - then its covered by rule 30
again ... I repeat that local authorities can and do determine what is required ...... changing the colregs to local regs
the original post asked the question if unlit vessels in the approaches to yarmouth should show riding lights - well if they are in the path of incoming vessels and are not observed by incoming vessels it comes under rule 30, and as vessels on buoys are deemed at anchor the rest falls into place.
so it looks like your fixed anchorage is in an area that is deemed by the local authorities as being exempt .... ok - so its exempt, no problems ....
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
l'escargot
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
..... the point I am highlighting is the question whether mooring to a buoy constitutes being at anchor.
I am of the opinion it is .......
[/ QUOTE ]
You would appear to be alone in your opinion /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
..... the point I am highlighting is the question whether mooring to a buoy constitutes being at anchor.
I am of the opinion it is .......
[/ QUOTE ]
You would appear to be alone in your opinion /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
landaftaf
Well-Known Member
ok - that doesnt faze me
Toutvabien
Well-Known Member
landaft, thanks for all your hard work on this query, it is rare that we get such knowledge and insight on this forum. When you return from Angola would you consider writing a regular column on nautical matters for the benefit of those of us that go sailing. There must be any number of other things that we are getting wrong, often, it would seem, without knowing it. Now you have put us all right on this issue it would be of benefit to cover other topics.
To finally understand the principles that should apply when rafting alongside other boats would, I am sure, be of great interest to others here.
To finally understand the principles that should apply when rafting alongside other boats would, I am sure, be of great interest to others here.
landaftaf
Well-Known Member
I am not sure if sarcasm is a form of wit ..... but I have learned my lesson that any attempt at offering nautical advice, knowledge or stories, at a basic or deeper level, is an effing waste of effort ....
I must admit I enjoy a barney, and enjoyed discussions with like minded ppl here, but I am suprised at the venom, ignorance and bullsh ite I have encountered from a few.
hope the weather is kind
/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
I must admit I enjoy a barney, and enjoyed discussions with like minded ppl here, but I am suprised at the venom, ignorance and bullsh ite I have encountered from a few.
hope the weather is kind
/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Sailfree
Well-Known Member
In reading this series of opinions the difference appears that many had a similar yachtmaster instructor to my one and were instructed that when moored to a charted mooring you don't need anchor lights. Silly me as I believed him without looking further
You have interpretted the CRs that a mooring is being at anchor as the CRs go on to clarify anchoring I believe to mainly differentiate between at Anchor and NUC.
If either you or others have the time I would be interested in seeing a definitive reply rather than an opinion quoting the relevant section of the CRs
My real problem in reading all this with some degree of entertainment is to decide are you just winding Jimi up or is Jimi winding you up. The CRs can give me no guidance on that I'm afraid.
You have interpretted the CRs that a mooring is being at anchor as the CRs go on to clarify anchoring I believe to mainly differentiate between at Anchor and NUC.
If either you or others have the time I would be interested in seeing a definitive reply rather than an opinion quoting the relevant section of the CRs
My real problem in reading all this with some degree of entertainment is to decide are you just winding Jimi up or is Jimi winding you up. The CRs can give me no guidance on that I'm afraid.
Seafort
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
..... the point I am highlighting is the question whether mooring to a buoy constitutes being at anchor.
I am of the opinion it is .......
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm afraid you'r opinion will not really count for much when it comes to the "Crunch".
The laying of permanent moorings will usually come under the local harbour authority, local council or the crown.
It is thier local regs that apply, over-riding the col' reg's. Everywhere the "Rules" can differ. Best to ask in advance.
There is no mention of glasses as far as I can see and thay make a tremendous difference. One of my friends suffers with the problem sailing in the dark. Maybe a night vision scope would help.
Dave.
..... the point I am highlighting is the question whether mooring to a buoy constitutes being at anchor.
I am of the opinion it is .......
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm afraid you'r opinion will not really count for much when it comes to the "Crunch".
The laying of permanent moorings will usually come under the local harbour authority, local council or the crown.
It is thier local regs that apply, over-riding the col' reg's. Everywhere the "Rules" can differ. Best to ask in advance.
There is no mention of glasses as far as I can see and thay make a tremendous difference. One of my friends suffers with the problem sailing in the dark. Maybe a night vision scope would help.
Dave.
landaftaf
Well-Known Member
the colregs are quite precise in describing where and when no lights shapes etc are reqd ...... and without local byelaws are the final arbiter.
if you are in a local authority mooring area they will lay down what is required - if the local rules occasion loss of life or damage then they could be taken to court to persue damages for lack of care etc...... in accordace with the colregs
not being funny - I gotta pack now so another time huh
if you are in a local authority mooring area they will lay down what is required - if the local rules occasion loss of life or damage then they could be taken to court to persue damages for lack of care etc...... in accordace with the colregs
not being funny - I gotta pack now so another time huh
Sailfree
Well-Known Member
Quick search found this yes I know its Canadian Waters but my understanding is that this is most peoples interpretation of the Rules for the UK (for both at anchor and moored).
"Notwithstanding this Rule, in the Canadian waters of a roadstead, harbour, river, lake or inland waterway, a barge or an inconspicuous, partly submerged vessel or object, when at anchor, is not required to exhibit any light while located within a recognized mooring, storage or booming area that is not an area in or near a narrow channel or fairway or where other vessels normally navigate."
Yes I admit I am hooked and would love to know if there is a correct pecise answer!! Sad case that I am!
"Notwithstanding this Rule, in the Canadian waters of a roadstead, harbour, river, lake or inland waterway, a barge or an inconspicuous, partly submerged vessel or object, when at anchor, is not required to exhibit any light while located within a recognized mooring, storage or booming area that is not an area in or near a narrow channel or fairway or where other vessels normally navigate."
Yes I admit I am hooked and would love to know if there is a correct pecise answer!! Sad case that I am!
B
bob_tyler
Guest
Jimi,
I concur.
Bob
I concur.
Bob
Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
Bloody Hell! 6 pages of to and fro on a subject that would bore Roy from Corrie.
I've been told I should get a life often enough on these forums.
It's your turn now!
I've been told I should get a life often enough on these forums.
It's your turn now!
bigmart
Well-Known Member
I've just returned from a weeks Sailing so my response is a little late. My you are a trouble Maker aren't you.
Funnily enough I spent the night of the 21st on the moorings in question. Suffice to say there were over 10 boats on the Buoys. 3 of them were over 50feet in length. I saw 2 Anchor lights, both on yachts around 30 Feet in length.
I was on one of the large Yachts, a MCA coded vessel, at least one of the other large Yachts was also coded.
As I eluded earlier in my posts, I find the concept of an Anchor Light on a vessel in a Mooring Field like this, almost ludicrious. If I felt so insecure as to need a light in these circumstances, I would be afraid to set out on the water in the first place. It would seem that the majority of seafarers, that use these types of facilities, agree with me.
Martin
Funnily enough I spent the night of the 21st on the moorings in question. Suffice to say there were over 10 boats on the Buoys. 3 of them were over 50feet in length. I saw 2 Anchor lights, both on yachts around 30 Feet in length.
I was on one of the large Yachts, a MCA coded vessel, at least one of the other large Yachts was also coded.
As I eluded earlier in my posts, I find the concept of an Anchor Light on a vessel in a Mooring Field like this, almost ludicrious. If I felt so insecure as to need a light in these circumstances, I would be afraid to set out on the water in the first place. It would seem that the majority of seafarers, that use these types of facilities, agree with me.
Martin
TheBoatman
Well-Known Member
Martin
Like you I have been away sailing for the last week and have come into this debate rather late but for what its worth here on the Medway it is strictly frowned upon to exibit lights whilst on a mooring.
The local ports authority say that it confuses the commercial skippers to see boats showing an "all round" white as they are not sure if it's actually moving - i.e. are they approaching a yacht under way from astern with just his tri-colour on!
They also say that the commercial guys know where the moorings are and expect boats to be laid to them. If some visitor wishes to pick up a mooring and ploughs on ahead expecting everyone to be empty or lit then he needs his head checking!!!
End result is we run round any visitors asking them to turn off their lights whilst on the mooring and these are moorings that are within or are laid on the edge of the fairway.
Peter. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Like you I have been away sailing for the last week and have come into this debate rather late but for what its worth here on the Medway it is strictly frowned upon to exibit lights whilst on a mooring.
The local ports authority say that it confuses the commercial skippers to see boats showing an "all round" white as they are not sure if it's actually moving - i.e. are they approaching a yacht under way from astern with just his tri-colour on!
They also say that the commercial guys know where the moorings are and expect boats to be laid to them. If some visitor wishes to pick up a mooring and ploughs on ahead expecting everyone to be empty or lit then he needs his head checking!!!
End result is we run round any visitors asking them to turn off their lights whilst on the mooring and these are moorings that are within or are laid on the edge of the fairway.
Peter. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
BrendanS
Well-Known Member
As I said previously in thread, just try going into any major area with moorings in the Solent or South Coast at night. None of them have lights. You know where they are, and are just part of the scenery. I wouldn't expect any of them to show lights, unless there are people in the cabins.
peterb
Well-Known Member
River Orwell
After a couple of incidents in which ships have collided with yachts on moorings at the side of the channel between Harwich and Ipswich, Harwich HM has issued a suggestion that anyone sleeping on a yacht on a mooring close to the channel should show a riding light. No such suggestion for unoccupied boats, though.
After a couple of incidents in which ships have collided with yachts on moorings at the side of the channel between Harwich and Ipswich, Harwich HM has issued a suggestion that anyone sleeping on a yacht on a mooring close to the channel should show a riding light. No such suggestion for unoccupied boats, though.
DeeGee
Well-Known Member
Re: River Orwell
[ QUOTE ]
After a couple of incidents in which ships have collided with yachts on moorings at the side of the channel between Harwich and Ipswich, Harwich HM has issued a suggestion that anyone sleeping on a yacht on a mooring close to the channel should show a riding light. No such suggestion for unoccupied boats, though.
[/ QUOTE ]Don't be bloody stupid !! That suggestion is so that the ships know which ones NOT to hit !! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
[ QUOTE ]
After a couple of incidents in which ships have collided with yachts on moorings at the side of the channel between Harwich and Ipswich, Harwich HM has issued a suggestion that anyone sleeping on a yacht on a mooring close to the channel should show a riding light. No such suggestion for unoccupied boats, though.
[/ QUOTE ]Don't be bloody stupid !! That suggestion is so that the ships know which ones NOT to hit !! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Pumpkin
New Member
I've just bought a Leisure 17 which doesn't have much in the way of electrics. Can I use an ordinary hurricane lamp (from a camping shop etc) as a riding light, and where's the best place to put it?
Many thanks.
Many thanks.
bigmart
Well-Known Member
It is unlikely that you will find anything better to use as an Anchor Light.
I think you'll find that the books say that it should be displayed in the foreward part of the Rigging ie. between the Forestay & Mast. In practice anywhere that is convenient will do. Just get it as high as is reasonably possible with as much , all round view as you can.
Martin
I think you'll find that the books say that it should be displayed in the foreward part of the Rigging ie. between the Forestay & Mast. In practice anywhere that is convenient will do. Just get it as high as is reasonably possible with as much , all round view as you can.
Martin
Superstrath
Well-Known Member
This looks like a dangerous place to post. However, I'll stick my head over the wall.
Like most of us here, I seldom show a ball when anchored. I use a riding light to show me the way back from the pub. My motor-sailing triangle is still in the wrapper. I take avoiding action regardless of the rules.
I'm a leisure sailor, and that's that.
On the other hand, I was a professional navigator and ship's officer for many years. Like Mr. Landaftaf, I have spent years at college studying, and years at sea, and have some substantial qualifications and experience as a result. I see no reason to feel ashamed about this career, and certainly no reason to conceal any knowledge that I may have as a consequence. So:
When a vessel is made fast to a buoy, it is regarded as being at anchor for the purposes of the rules.
For example in Hong Kong harbour, or some of the West Malaysian ports where cargo is worked from buoys into lighters. Or, more locally, when the Lochranza ferry lies to it's buoy overnight.
Like I said, we leisure boaters don't often need to worry about that stuff, and local bye-laws and habits may vary. But Landaftaf is, strictly speaking, correct. Unsurprisingly.
Like most of us here, I seldom show a ball when anchored. I use a riding light to show me the way back from the pub. My motor-sailing triangle is still in the wrapper. I take avoiding action regardless of the rules.
I'm a leisure sailor, and that's that.
On the other hand, I was a professional navigator and ship's officer for many years. Like Mr. Landaftaf, I have spent years at college studying, and years at sea, and have some substantial qualifications and experience as a result. I see no reason to feel ashamed about this career, and certainly no reason to conceal any knowledge that I may have as a consequence. So:
When a vessel is made fast to a buoy, it is regarded as being at anchor for the purposes of the rules.
For example in Hong Kong harbour, or some of the West Malaysian ports where cargo is worked from buoys into lighters. Or, more locally, when the Lochranza ferry lies to it's buoy overnight.
Like I said, we leisure boaters don't often need to worry about that stuff, and local bye-laws and habits may vary. But Landaftaf is, strictly speaking, correct. Unsurprisingly.
