Riding lights

nah - I am not nervous ...... sensible.

I am an old bold north sea tiger - and to be honest, if ppl wanna up the anti and ignore rules, advice and common sense so be it, I will read about them in the paper after they $*ck up and kill themselves, and friends, and others ........ maybe even the rescue services sent out to assist them after fukin themselves up.

old enuff to have seen it all before ...........

so big mart - be smart - take good advise to heart and dont be a fart
 
Sadly your prose semms as weak as northern beer.

I won't be posting here for a short while. I am about to set sail tomorrow. I will be picking up one of those Mooring Bouys tomorrow night.

Do you think I should set an Anchor Light?

Martin /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 
ma proze is az gud as me spellin .....

if you want my honest opinion, yup I would recommend it.

hope you have a good and safe trip - I am off for 8 weeks as well soon so will practice what I preach

bonne voyage /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Martin - if you have left your light on for the last week whilst your boat has been anchored (tied to floating object attached to seabed by chain) in the marina then you won't be able to as your batteries are flat.......... /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Have a good sail ..........this may still be going when you get back!
 
For a vessel moored in a permanently laid small vessel mooring field one can be quite confident that whatever the ColRegs and some others may infer, the law will not require you to show any lights (unless there is a specific harbour requirement to do so - unlikely).

As some have said, if there was to be a requirement it would be impossible for most small vessels to comply with when left unattended. The law is not always an ass, but those who read it sometimes are. A simple look at any mooring field will show that it is not a blaze of lights and the authorities do not make an issue of that (may be different in the UK, I would be very surprised if so).

Putting all that to one side, I would not accept a permanent mooring in part of a field exposed to other traffic, and if in such a position, overnighting and not many other boats on adjacent moorings making an obvious show that it is a mooring field, I would show a light for my own comfort.

Oh, and you should have been looking where you were going, in my opinion.

John
 
You only have to enter any of the large mooring areas on south coast at night, eg Lymington, Hamble etc. to soon see that few, if no, boats on permanent moorings show any lights. They are part of the scenery, and marks are light, not moorings or moored boats.
 
If I'm aboard, even on a mooring, I show a riding (anchor) light. Just belt and braces really, not a legal or colregs rule.
 
John

This is a charted area of moorings laid just outside of the harbour proper, see plan below

www.yarmouth-harbour.co.uk/map.html

Northwest of the mooring area shown is a starboard buoy 'Black Rock' which marks the Solent channel coming in from the west as well as marking Black Rock, a dangerous rock just west of the moorings and not far away from them. Despite the buoy many boats approach the moorings and the harbour by passing close to or even over Black Rock, a few choose to park on it at LWS.

So the Yarmouth mooring area is bounded by the harbour wall to the south, the pier (lit of course) to the east as well as a buoy marking the entry channel to the harbour itself which is used every 15 minutes up to about 2230 daily by car ferries, and then by Black Rock and its (lit) buoy to the west.

Anyone approaching from the west should pass north of Black Rock buoy before turning south to enter the moorings which are only about 150m away, the boats here will almost always then be 'seen' at 90 degs ie lying east/west or vice versa because of the strong Solent tides. Anyone wanting the harbour proper should go farther east and enter after the moorings, though many pass through the moorings, some even run aground between them and the wall whilst taking this shortcut. Coming from the east the pier provides a barrier to approching vessels.

There are always some shore lights showing and boats on the moorings can be seen silhouetted against them, though empty moorings are less easily seen. Bear in mind also the tide runs east/west or vice versa through here at up to 3kts.

Robin
 
Pending prosecution of driver of a RIB that wrecked itself on an unlit MOD mooring buoy off Netley in Southampton Water.

I understand that there is no requirement for such buoys to be lit, and that the RIB allegedly failed to keep a proper lookout.
 
You're completely wrong and suggest that a master mariner that you hold yourself out to be ought to know better. No requirement in CR for a boat on a mooring to show a light. If a boat underway hits a moored boat then blame 100% with boat underway... full stop.

Nevertheless from a practical point of view I usually leave the anchor light when on an overnight stop mooring out of courtesy. Would'nt do it it on a pernament mooring though
 
an unlit floating object is a navigational hazard - whether attached to the ground or adrift

if a vessel hits an unlit vessel at anchor it is not 100% to blame as the unlit vessel hasnt complied with the colregs.

a vessel on a mooring buoy is considered to be a vessel at anchor.

ergo - a vessel on a mooring buoy is deemed a vessel at anchor so should display appropriate shapes and lights - and sound appropriate sound signals in fog.

which bit do you seem to have a problem with ?

without resorting to a pissing contest or being insulting ....... what do you base you assumption on, hearsay in the clubhouse or maritime law ? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Ens v Gabany , (January 19, 1996), No.75911/91Q, (Ont.Ct. Gen.Div.).

Apportionment of liability was the issue in this small vessel collision case. The Plaintiff's vessel was at anchor and was hit by the Defendant's vessel. The Court apportioned liability 70% to the Defendant and 30% to the Plaintiff. The faults on the part of the Defendant were traveling at night at an excessive rate of speed when having consumed sufficient alcohol to have affected his judgment and vision. The faults on the part of the Plaintiff were not having an anchor light and anchoring his vessel in an area where through traffic was predictable and probable.

there are many other examples but if you are interested I am sure you know how to find them.

and by the way - I hope I dont appear to burden ppl with claims to fame, however sometimes mentioning ones background mollifies those argumentitive types.

fyi I am also a member of the nautical institute ....... which probably doesnt mean fuk all to you but does to others.

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
I also have read the col regs and actually in a designated anchorage there is no legal requirement to show an anchor light. Also on a permanent mooring there is no legal requirement. At anchor in a non designated anchorage there is of course a requirement. As I said earlier, I show one when on a mooring if I am onboard or just down the pub and coming back.

So what you are saying is that all boats on moorings in the UK are breaking the Colregs, by not showing a light! Best tell them and the harbour authorities, they could make a fortune in fines and selling solar powered anchor lights, in fact, think I'll start selling them myself, make a killing!!
 
I always have a deep suspicion of people who make grandiose claims to knowledge but actually display very little of it. A quick web search of a Canadian site is not evidence of an in depth knowledge of the subject. FWIW a vessel on a recognised mooring is not at anchor it is on a mooring and as such has no need to show lights.

Re unlit mooring bouys .. suggest you take a look at ones in Southampton and take the matter up with the Admiralty.
 
This is taken from a US Coastguard site but the rules are internationally agreed and accepted and I am sure are the same everywhere. Can you prove otherwise?


Rule 30
(a) A vessel at anchor shall exhibit where it can best be seen:

in the fore part, an all-round white light or one ball;
at or near the stern and at a lower level than the light prescribed in subparagraph (i), an all-round white light.
<font color="red"> (b) A vessel of less than 50 meters in length may exhibit an all-round white light where it can best be seen instead of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule </font> .

(c) A vessel at anchor may, and a vessel of 100 meters and more in length shall, also use the available working or equivalent lights to illuminate her decks.

(d) A vessel aground shall exhibit the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) or (b) of this Rule and in addition, if practicable, [Inld] where they can best be seen;

two all-round red lights in a vertical line;
three balls in a vertical line.
(e) A vessel of less than 7 meters in length, when at anchor not in or near a narrow channel, fairway or where other vessels normally navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the shape prescribed in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this Rule.

(f) A vessel of less than 12 meters in length, when aground, shall not be required to exhibit the lights or shapes prescribed in subparagraphs (d)(i) and (ii) of this Rule.

<font color="red"> (g) A vessel of less than 20 meters in length, when at anchor in a special anchorage area designated by the Secretary, shall not be required to exhibit the anchor lights and shapes required by this Rule. [Inld] </font>
 
Anyone can quote case law of the internet!

Given this case, I would argue that there is a local custom within the Solent of not displaying anchor lights when moored outside Yarmouth harbour. In addition, I would suggest that in the event of a collision, that you are doubly liable for any damage, not only as the skipper of the vessel for not keeping an adequate lookout, but also as the owner of the vessel for not ensuring that the skipper, in this case yourself, kept an adequate lookout.

We need a qualified marine lawyer to give a real opinion.

Conrad v. Snair, (December 7, 1995) No. 109424 (N.S.C.A.).

This case involved a collision at night between a Boston Whaler and an anchored unlit sailboat. As a result of the collision, a passenger of the Boston Whaler was seriously injured. The issues concerned the liability for the collision, contributory negligence, and limitation of liability. Both the trial Judge and the Court of Appeal found that the driver of the Boston Whaler was entirely at fault for the collision. The driver was found to have been traveling at an excessive rate of speed and failed to maintain a proper lookout. With respect to the sailboat, the trial Judge and the Court of Appeal held that there was no presumption of fault because of the failure to exhibit an anchor light. They further found that there was a local custom to not display anchor lights. The driver of the Boston Whaler also argued that his passenger was contributorily negligent in that she knew of his propensity to drive his boat in a particular manner. The Court of Appeal held that even if the master was known to be reckless, that would be an insufficient basis for a finding of contributory negligence. Although in light of these findings, the Court of Appeal did not need to decide whether contributory negligence on the part of the plaintiff would be a complete bar to damages, it nevertheless gave the opinion that if the Plaintiff had been negligent, the Provincial contributory negligence statute would apply to apportion damages. Finally, the driver of the Boston Whaler argued that he was entitled to limit his liability under the Canada Shipping Act because the accident occurred while he was acting in his capacity as master and not owner of the vessel. In lengthy reasons the Court of Appeal analyzed the problems that arise where the master is also the owner. Ultimately, the Court agreed with the trial Judge that the owner/master of the Boston Whaler was at fault as owner in failing to ensure his alter ego, the master, traveled at a safe speed.
 
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