'Reinstate Mad Frankie?'

Ubergeekian said:
Can you produce a citation for that? I've been looking, and every source I can find says that justification is a defence to defamation except in one very precise case: a true statement about a candidate in an election which was not known to be true at the time it was made can still be defamatory.

I'm not doubting you, but I would like to see a proper reference.
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More specifically publishing something with malice denies the defence of fair comment... (And of privilidge I think...)

and, as cited in the Yachting World V Walker Wingsail case in 1994....

From the Judges summation to the jury..

"If someone publishes defamatory matter by way of comment recklessly, without considering or careing whether it is true or false, that defendant is treated as if he or she knew it was false"

In other words even if the material published is true... if it was published with malice... then the defence of fair comment fails...

So, if you publish something that looks reasonable and is accurate, but defames someone.... and of course you use the "Fair Comment" defence... and you did it with malice (Or recklessly) then the defence fails.


Egger V Chelmsford (1964) Lord Denning discussed the transfer of Malice....

I believe in that case the defence succeeded because the paper was able to show that whilst the information put forward by their "informant" was done with malice... the paper itself and the journalist involved did not share this same malice...


Does that help?:)


BTW; I am not a lawyer.... but as a journalist I have done some basic studying of the issue... the citations I am makeing are comeing from my well thumbed copy of "Essential Law for Journalists"...... so no doubt its all rubbish!


"a true statement about a candidate in an election which was not known to be true at the time it was made can still be defamatory.



Thats recklessness... and as discussed in the Yachting World case amounts to malice....
 
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Late on this thread. As far as the writen word is concerned the printer, retailer, publisher and author all stand in line for a potential defamation claim - which is why WHS wouldn't stock Private Eye for so many years. Ergo it's not necessary to know the identity of said Francis - IPC make the easiest target.

The Internet hasn't had time to establish much in the way of legal precedent but the litigious US is unsurprisingly ahead of the UK in this respect. It seems that owners of unmoderated forums in the US have a reasonable defence against defamation by anonymous posters who may be anywhere in the world if they remove a posting as soon as they receive a complaint. It doesn't have to follow that any UK judgment would follow the US but it is a guide to reasonable behaviour in the absence of any other - and possibly acts as damage limitation in a similar manner to a printed apology. But was a complaint received? OF
 
photodog said:
Actually that is simply NOT true...

If you publish something which lowers the reputation of a individual in the eyes of a reasonable man (Ie; defames that individual..) and you do this with malice then even if the information that you published is the truth... in the UK it is still a defamation and actionable.

So motivation is crucial... material, truthfull or not, that is published with malice, that defames a individual, is actionable.
Click to expand...

I get your point photodog I just don't think there has been the malice that you keep rattling on about unless it is the malice shown by Stephen Trellis & his seahorse organization towards the boating community.
As far as I can see he has manufactured "facts" in order to give his own organization credibility.
 
oldfrank said:
Late on this thread. As far as the writen word is concerned the printer, retailer, publisher and author all stand in line for a potential defamation claim - which is why WHS wouldn't stock Private Eye for so many years. Ergo it's not necessary to know the identity of said Francis - IPC make the easiest target.

The Internet hasn't had time to establish much in the way of legal precedent but the litigious US is unsurprisingly ahead of the UK in this respect. It seems that owners of unmoderated forums in the US have a reasonable defence against defamation by anonymous posters who may be anywhere in the world if they remove a posting as soon as they receive a complaint. It doesn't have to follow that any UK judgment would follow the US but it is a guide to reasonable behaviour in the absence of any other - and possibly acts as damage limitation in a similar manner to a printed apology. But was a complaint received? OF
Click to expand...

Good question & I have my suspicions......
If people make complaints then I think their complaint & details should be published otherwise it could be just ....malicious.:cool:
 
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I didn't the the thread got out of control at all and certainly not actionable. Given the nonsense ST44 and his boss spouted I'm surprised the reaction wasn't much worse.
Yes, Mad Frankie should be allowed back.
 
Comments on tripadvisor

If the comments about the various hotels etc on "TRIPADVISOR" ,that may have been made with malice, are also considered then the lawyers are going to be very busy for a very long time ! :D
 
kristifercolumnbus said:
I just don't think there has been the malice that you keep rattling on about.
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Sorry.. I am not implying or stating that any posts in relation to this issue were posted with malice.. (If I did say that then that would be a actionable defamation as it would be imputing a improper motive....) I am just pointing out the simple fact that even if something is true... in the UK the truth may not be a defence in a defamation case, were that defence centers on "Fair Comment".

This is the VERY important fact that I am trying to get across... In the UK.. "The Truth" is not always a defence in a defamation action.... and this point was brought home to Yachting World in 94, when they had to shell out £1.47 milion or so to Walkers Wingsail.

So, KC... when you post something, even if its true, you need to bear in mind your motivation...

So...

[As far as I can see he has manufactured "facts" in order to give his own organization credibility

Now that could be a actionable defamation... or it could be fair comment....

If you really dislike the guy you are referring to, then you could be posting that with malice.... If OTOH you are making a honest statement based upon no preconcieved notion other than the facts as presented to you... Fair Comment...

dont forget "Imputing a Improper Motive" is a prima facie defamation... so odviously actually having a improper motive for making a potentially defamatory statement is cleary a prima facie defamation as well....

:)


BTW; Once again I am not actually passing a direct comment on the posts in question... just trying to point out how much of a minefield this is.... so folks can appreciate the need to be carefull.
 
"BTW; Once again I am not actually passing a direct comment on the posts in question... just trying to point out how much of a minefield this is.... so folks can appreciate the need to be carefull."
____________________________________________________________________________

Wow! I seem to have started something here.

Would you say that poor, old Mad Frankie chances of reinstatement were fairly slim,?

Maybe we ought to have a campaign to ban lawyers from standing as MPs, then there might be a chance of a root and branch review of the legal profession and legislature, or are they both safe from interference from any outside body, even Parliament?
 
Ivor and his Seagull Engine

There was an old yachtie called Ivor,
Who fancied himself as a Diver,
He went diving in May,
Snapping the Seagrass in Studland Bay,
And every pic earned him a Fiver.
 
Seagull Engines

British Seagull now theres an outboard and ahalf !
Apparently the British landing on the Normandy beaches in 1944 took a load over with them and buried them in case they had to make a rapid escape . Up until a few years ago the locals were still digging them up and using them on their boats . I think these were a special MOD version and bigger than the 40 plus .
Got a longshaft 5 hp as a standby on Das Boot circ 1967 and still going like a rocket .
 
photodog said:
Sorry.. I am not implying or stating that any posts in relation to this issue were posted with malice.. (If I did say that then that would be a actionable defamation as it would be imputing a improper motive....) I am just pointing out the simple fact that even if something is true... in the UK the truth may not be a defence in a defamation case, were that defence centers on "Fair Comment".

This is the VERY important fact that I am trying to get across... In the UK.. "The Truth" is not always a defence in a defamation action.... and this point was brought home to Yachting World in 94, when they had to shell out £1.47 milion or so to Walkers Wingsail.

So, KC... when you post something, even if its true, you need to bear in mind your motivation...

So...

[As far as I can see he has manufactured "facts" in order to give his own organization credibility

Now that could be a actionable defamation... or it could be fair comment....

If you really dislike the guy you are referring to, then you could be posting that with malice.... If OTOH you are making a honest statement based upon no preconcieved notion other than the facts as presented to you... Fair Comment...

dont forget "Imputing a Improper Motive" is a prima facie defamation... so odviously actually having a improper motive for making a potentially defamatory statement is cleary a prima facie defamation as well....

:)


BTW; Once again I am not actually passing a direct comment on the posts in question... just trying to point out how much of a minefield this is.... so folks can appreciate the need to be carefull.
Click to expand...

photodog my motivation is the truth the whole truth & nothing but the truth what is your motivation?
You have actually passed direct comment in singling out a number of phrases in past posts as example of what ever it is that you are prattling on about:D
 
Franc or Euro ?

Talking of mad and franc ,the latest from this side of the Channel is because of the Greek Economic Crisis lots of EU states are questioning the future of the EURO . If we'd all kept our own currencies this crisis wouldn't have happened .. so much for the great Eurozone .
They are already calling for the return of the FRANC ! So this should be a lesson to all conservationists" if it isn't broken don't fix it " .
REINSTATE FRANC !!!
 
Seahorse Liberation Front

Is Mad Frankie ..an Animal Rights Activist ?
Is he against the tagging of these Studland Seahorses ?:eek:
 
ARCO7 said:
Is Mad Frankie ..an Animal Rights Activist ?
Is he against the tagging of these Studland Seahorses ?:eek:
Click to expand...

The impression that I have got is that he is just an ordinary bloke (or possibly a Councilor) who lives in & loves Studland.(I would say that anybody with half a brain would be against the tagging & interference with those delicate creatures).you don't have to be Einstein to see that it must be effecting their lifestyle:eek:
 
ARCO7 said:
Is Mad Frankie ..an Animal Rights Activist ?
Is he against the tagging of these Studland Seahorses ?:eek:
Click to expand...



Aren't we all?

Can we not involve the RSPCA to abollish this barbaric practice? Surely there must be a law that is being broken here. A local headline: 'Frogman observed disturbing and inflicting pain on Studland Bay's Resident Sea Creatures'.
 
MAD FRANK

I have it on good authority that our man Frank isn't a councillor ,an animal activist,or a Studland Resident ,just an ordinary bloke .
 
Lunatic a la Francis

Watched LIFE OF BRIAN last night and I keep saying "WEEELEASE FRWWWANKIE" now ! The girlfriend is looking at me a bit puzzled !:D
 
Woderwick?

Never mind Woders , I have googled Mados Frankos and I just hope its not the same person .. Mad "Frankie" of the Kray Twins Gang ... ohmmm !
What about Weggie ?
 
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