Regalvanizing chain in Sicily

[Yngmar]

Our chain was starting to show signs of rust last winter already, and after the last two days in Porto Kagio with 40 knot gusts in highly abrasive coarse sand, it came up with some links gone very shiny on the outside, meaning the galvanizing is completely gone on parts of it now.

So this winter in Licata (Sicily), we'd like to get it regalvanized. It's Maggi G70. If I remember correctly, the hydrogen embrittlement scare turned out to be wildly exaggerated and it's fine to regalvanize high tensile (G70) chain, right?

There's also some yellow paint on the chain (markers) that needs to be removed (perhaps just drag it around the seafloor some more ).

Any recommendations as to where in Sicily I can get this done, given that 70m of 8mm chain weighs a bit over 100 kg? Malta may be an option too, although Sicily obviously easier. Thanks

 

[Stingo]

Another option is to swap it around, end to end, so what was always in your anchor locker gets a chance to experience being at the anchor end.

 

[RobbieW]

Cant help with your specific inquiry and bear in mind that my experience at Licata was in 2013/14 and 14/15. The chandlery in the marina is unlikely to be helpful (but worth asking), the chandlery near the fishing port is much more likely to have an answer - if your Italian is good try asking around the various workshops by the fishing port. Theres also a kiwi who set up shop in Licata, try 'Yacht Service Licata' on Facebook to see if he's still there

 

[vyv_cox]

Another option is to swap it around, end to end, so what was always in your anchor locker gets a chance to experience being at the anchor end.

Oddly enough, although the galvanising on each end of my chain is reasonably intact it is the centre that is looking well past its best. It is the length that was regalvanised in UK nine years ago.

 

[sailaboutvic]

I remember last time we was in licata same time as Robbie we asked and had no luck , in Ragusa we asked again and was told there was someone in cantania but that's as far as we got , we by in Siracusa in Oct to copper coat the bottom and will be asking again , our three year old chain is not looking good , mother Magie chain , if we hear any thing we let you know .

Edit

Malta there a few places that do fences , I not sure I would want them doing a chain .

 

[Richard10002]

You would think that Manoel island Yard in Malta would be able to help with this. You could tie up alongside, dump the chain on the shore, from where it's over to them or their recommended galvaniser.

 

[sailaboutvic]

You would think that Manoel island Yard in Malta would be able to help with this. You could tie up alongside, dump the chain on the shore, from where it's over to them or their recommended galvaniser.

I had a chat there the other year but all they suggest was new chain , there a couple of places has I said that gal metal but I think chain is a very different then metal poles and fence plus I think they spray thenand not dip .

 

[Yngmar]

Thanks everyone. I'll ask Matt (Yacht Service Licata). I've also cheekily asked Maggi if they have any recommendations, but no answer so far.

Also had a look around the internet, but not found much in Sicily. Catania has a foundry, but no Zincatura. Palermo has a large scale Zincatura a caldo (hot-dip galvanizing plant), but they don't seem to do cadena (chain).

Malta we'll hopefully manage to visit on the way back to Sicily, so I can ask around in person there. Meanwhile I've emailed Manoel Island.

Further suggestions welcome!

 

[One A.]

If your passing through Crotone on your way, I wouldn't mind betting you might well be able to get it done there.....

 

[Yngmar]

If your passing through Crotone on your way, I wouldn't mind betting you might well be able to get it done there.....

Hmm, could go that way - got any recommendations?

 

[One A.]

Hmm, could go that way - got any recommendations?

No recommendations, but I've passed through that place many times and always managed to get whatever problem I've had sorted. I can't find the name/website online but someone else might know, but basically when you go in the port there's a marina to your right (I think It's the yacht club to your left) and the guys that run it are really helpful. I would say it's the best place between Greece and Licata to get anything sorted.

 

[Neeves]

You can regalvanise a G70 chain that has previously been galvanised.

G70 chain has historically been made by forming the chain and then quench and tempering the 'unfinished' product. The tempering temperature is critical to what is trying to be achieved. When the chain is galvanised the chain is retempered - because the HDG process is a different temperature (higher temperature) than the original tempering process. I think Maggi may have started off with a G100 chain and as a result of the HDG process they finished up with a G70 chain (this was planned as such and they achieved a genuine G70 chain). Having been used any further processing will not alter what Maggi achieved - unless the 'new' HDG process is conducted at a higher temperature.. HDG process around the world operate at similar temperatures - so this is not an issue.

Hydrogen embrittlement is a different can of worms and is caused by the acid washing (pickling) prior to galvanising. A safer method - it this is a concern is abrasive cleaning, sand blasting - but many galvanisers might not have this on site and you therefore need to find someone to do it. The advise, from Oz, is - if you go for sand blasting - get it to the galvanised the same day and galvanise as soon as it arrives.

I know of no Galvanised G70 chain failures from HE.

Cleaning paint of chain is another issue - hire a tractor or 4wd and drag it along a beach - works a treat - but not necessarily easy to arrange. Or do as you suggest - use the chain on an abrasive seabed. Note - though you cannot see it your chain on the seabed is corroding - just the products of corrosion are abraded off all the time (and it comes up looking metallic and shiny). Short term this does not matter - but don't think of extending use of an ungalvanised chain too long - as you will be losing meat (not such a big issue with G70 - its hard and abrasion resistant (but corrodes at the same rate as any other steel).

Freshwater wash the chain in the locker when ever you can and keep the chain in the locker dry - keep the locker hatch open to the breeze and sun.

Last I heard - Maggi were in Administration, this was some time ago but after when you bought your chain. Administration (I understand) in Italy means financial issues but all and every attempt is made, by the administrator, to keep the business running (and employment as was/is).

I know of one chain maker, lifting chain, that was in administration for years - and then 'rescued' (sold) and now very successful and part of an international group.

Maggi, I believe, was a family company and they seemed to have another business which was galvanising and I assumed the Maggi chain product was processed in the galvanising plant. The MD of the chain company was on the board of the galvaniser. I understand Maggi chain is still available - but have no idea who might be running it now - but if you sent an email to an individual - they might not be employed now - so send to a 'general' email address.

I suspect there are a number of galvanisers in Italy - your might have chosen the 'wrong' location to overwinter - maybe you should look at Italy's industrial heartland - and go skiing instead of the balmy weather of Sicily. Most countries have a Galvanisers Association which might merit searching for, another option is find that same organisation in the UK - as they will have a list of galvanisers in Italy - and see if they can point you in the right direction. Its a google search - unless Geoff follows this thread and has more useful advise. If you don't get anywhere a PM to Geoff might be useful.

Sorry to not be much help

but

Good Luck

Jonathan

Edit I only occasionally browse the Liveaboard threads - life is too short. Geoff might have similar views and may not scan the threads - a PM might be in order.

 

[cegri]

So this winter in Licata (Sicily), we'd like to get it regalvanized.

Hello Yngmar,
Have you been able to solve the galvanising issue? I'm in a similar situation, in Sicily.

Also, did you get a quote for a new chain?

 

[sailaboutvic]

Hello Yngmar,
Have you been able to solve the galvanising issue? I'm in a similar situation, in Sicily.

Also, did you get a quote for a new chain?

There a chandelier out side the marina towards the fishing harbour and the yards , went we was there some years back not only was he always helpful but beat the guy in the marina hands down on prices even tho the guy in the marina was given 15% off

 

[Yngmar]

Didn't get a response from Manoel's yard, or from Maggi's info@ address. Just fired off an email to Matt (Yacht Service Licata), perhaps he'll know something. As Licata has a big winter community, I expect there'll be more than one boat with an interest.

From my own research, I found a large industrial galvanizing plant in Palermo, but there's no mention of them doing chain and my Italian is too poor to ask.

When we're back in October I can ask around locally at both chandleries too.

Worst case we'll have to buy new chain, which will then probably not be high-tensile (Grade 70) as even in strong winds the loads on the chain I've scientifically (cough) measured by deflecting the snubber in the worst moments (strong gusts beam-on) were far below even the 800 kgf SWL of G40 chain and therefore I think we originally overbought a bit (having virtually no anchoring experience at the time) and don't need to spend the extra cash for new G70 chain. Given that it doesn't last that long and re-galvanizing whilst cruising seems difficult, this will safe a lot of cash in the long run. Still, it would be much preferable to just re-galvanize the one we've already got at a sensible cost, if at all possible!

Stainless chain is tempting, but in three years we've had to abandon it once already, the cost of losing it would really hurt (although I've spent this summer honing my freediving and anchor salvaging skills).

Cegri, if you need new chain, Maggi still (or again, given administration) sells it, prices on the website. Beware, when we bought ours, shipping took a lot (months) longer than promised, so order early.

 

[sailaboutvic]

If you can both wait till I get back to Siracusa in about a month , I have a word with the yard that's going to haul me and see if they know of any company that does .

 

[JFowler]

If you’re going back to Greece, I bought new chain from Stefanou Marine in Piraeus. 8mm x 85m cost about €240 delivered to Chalkoutsi.
Easy to deal with and quick delivery. It’s now 2 season old and still in excellent condition.
Edit: they sell chain by the Kg not per metre.

 

[Neeves]

If you’re going back to Greece, I bought new chain from Stefanou Marine in Piraeus. 8mm x 85m cost about €240 delivered to Chalkoutsi.
Easy to deal with and quick delivery. It’s now 2 season old and still in excellent condition.

A liveaboard should get much more than 2 'seasons' - please define a season.

Peerless, I think America's biggest chain maker (and now owned by Kito, of Japan) makes a galvanised G70 chain in both metric and imperial sizes. It is (or was) available from stock in Europe (I think Germany). Contact Peerless in America.

Maggi's chain was a 'true' G70, I think it might have been based on a G100 feedstock. Peerless' G70 is based on a G70 chain and is really a G55 (approximate) strength - but thus better than G40. My estimate, then, was that Peerless beat Maggi on galvanising - hands down

You can also look at Gunnebo who make and recently, introduced a true G80 metric galvanised chain (I think based on G100 with wire size slightly larger than normal), they sell it into aquaculture. It is in metric sizes - but I simply don't know if it fits a relevant metric windlass. It would be easy to check - ask Gunnebo for the sizes, transfer the answer to your windlass maker. I have no idea how much it costs.

I made my own, well I had it galvanised to my demands, galvanised (coincidentally - Gunnebo) 6mm G80 to replace my 8mm G30 and subsequently 'oversaw' production of galvanised 8mm (Chinese) G100 to replace 10mm G30. It is possible. My gal G80 has stood up well (I'd do it again). I also had all the components made at the same time - so the whole rode is matched for both strength and dimensional fit. It is a very attractive price option.

Note if you need advice - I am based, inconveniently for most - in Sydney.

But as a start send me an email address by PM and I'll send you a pdf.

Jonathan

 

[sailaboutvic]

A liveaboard should get much more than 2 'seasons' - please define a season.

Peerless, I think America's biggest chain maker (and now owned by Kito, of Japan) makes a galvanised G70 chain in both metric and imperial sizes. It is (or was) available from stock in Europe (I think Germany). Contact Peerless in America.

Maggi's chain was a 'true' G70, I think it might have been based on a G100 feedstock. Peerless' G70 is based on a G70 chain and is really a G55 (approximate) strength - but thus better than G40. My estimate, then, was that Peerless beat Maggi on galvanising - hands down

You can also look at Gunnebo who make and recently, introduced a true G80 metric galvanised chain (I think based on G100 with wire size slightly larger than normal), they sell it into aquaculture. It is in metric sizes - but I simply don't know if it fits a relevant metric windlass. It would be easy to check - ask Gunnebo for the sizes, transfer the answer to your windlass maker. I have no idea how much it costs.

I made my own, well I had it galvanised to my demands, galvanised (coincidentally - Gunnebo) 6mm G80 to replace my 8mm G30 and subsequently 'oversaw' production of galvanised 8mm (Chinese) G100 to replace 10mm G30. It is possible. My gal G80 has stood up well (I'd do it again). I also had all the components made at the same time - so the whole rode is matched for both strength and dimensional fit. It is a very attractive price option.

Note if you need advice - I am based, inconveniently for most - in Sydney.

But as a start send me an email address by PM and I'll send you a pdf.

Jonathan

"Please define a season
At really depend who you ask , I would say for a very large amount of liveaboard in the Med it's six months , most will tell you before May and from Oct the weather is so unpredictable and it's dangerous, off course thats stupid .
There a few I know of that will winter out in theMed on their hook ,
And there a few like our self who will sail till Dec then take a couple months in a marina to do work and do some socialising, it also give us a gap to visit family and friends .

We had 24 full months ( two and a half season ) on our Maggie chain , now one end is rusty , the other getting there , we top no tail it every four months .

We plain to live with the rust unless we can get some where convenient to have it regal , it mean cleaning the bow a bit more .
I doubt if it's lost any strength because of a bit of rust .

Has for the advise which I sure is good advise re having it regal as soon as it been clean , that fine if you have a car and can fine a good company to play ball
But for most of us cruisers finding a place to regal is hard enough and if you can get a date within a month when it be done you be very lucky .

Many I know have had it done in Turkey ( when I say many as many as 30 boats)
Everyone had the same problem , the chain came back stuck together , they spend days wacky it with a hammer and then they ended up with snotty lumps .

Chain is going the same way as every thing else , is become a throw away commodity.

 

[Yngmar]

Got a response from Matt (Licata). He says he only knows it to be done properly in North Italy and that's only viable if a group of people get together. Would have to see when we get to Licata if there is enough interest.

I don't like the idea of disposable chain but it looks like Vic might be right about that.

Looked up some prices for replacement chain meanwhile (right-click and View Image to enlarge):

The Stefanou Marine one is tempting, if it's still the same one JFowler got, it wouldn't be a big detour for us. No load rating though, might be good or might be pudding!

The FNI (yachtshop.eu) one is reasonable, but no idea who makes it - might be Maggi. Cheaper than from Maggi direct, but that doesn't surprise me (and Maggi's online shop is broken and when you add it to the cart the quote goes to 10x).

Local chandleries usually struggle to beat the yachtshop.eu prices.