Refinishing saloon table

[Ammonite]

The teak veneer on my saloon table has slight indentations in the grain that you can feel with your fingernails and over the years the low points have gone dark brown / black, presumably from accumulated dirt and water. It still looks pretty good but unfortunately it doesn't now match the drop down leaves which dont have these dark lines. My concern is that I'll go through the veneer if I try to sand it back and treat with Oxalic acid as I'll probably need to remove best part of 1mm to remove the varnish in the lowest points. Would scoring the dark lines using a fine blade allow me to treat locally? Any other ideas (apart from using a pencil to add dark lines to the grain on the leaves!)? Thanks

 

[Concerto]

You do not memntion what typre of boat your table is from and the approximate age. I am assuming you have a real wood veneer and it is about 30 years old.

Most boats have internal woodwork finished with a lacquer, not varnish. This is very reay to remove. I use a 1½" chisel ground on a small electric diamond grinding wheel (less the £20) but leave the back burr on. This burr acts like a cabinet scrapper, but much easier to keep sharp. Whilst removing the lacquer keep an eye of the colour of the dust. Lacquer will be a creamy white colour, but as soon as you touch the veneerthe colour of the dust will change to the wood colour. Any imperfections can usually be cleaned using the snapped off edge of a craft typedsmall knife. Now lightly sand with the grain using 320 grade paper. Then check all lacquer has been removed by wiping with a damp J cloth. If the water does not get absorbed, then there is still lacquer there, so go back a stage. With regard to small dents, they can be reduced in appearance by taking a fine needle and pricking the surface of the wood and then dropping some water in the depression and allow to soak in for about a quarter on an hour. This should swell the bruised wood back to almost level. Once fully dry you can start finishing the table. Personally I would used lacquer again as varnish tends to remain sticky whilst drying and attracts dust. Full details are in this presentation of mine.

https://wiki.westerly-owners.co.uk/images/2/25/Interior_Woodwork_Concerto_PowerPoint.pdf

 

[Ammonite]

Thanks Concerto. It's a 1999 Moody. If the veneer was flat I've have no hesitation in removing the finish, and you're right it is lacquer, but I'm concerned that this is going to leave the low points which do look as if they have been coloured in with a pencil. Are you suggesting that these all need to be scraped back individually? There aren't any dents, just natural indentations in the grain.

Edit: the black lines look like the lines you get on a piece of oak but have formed in the indentations in the teak veneer that follow the grain

 

[TSB240]

The teak veneer on my saloon table had slight indentations in the grain that you can feel with your fingernails and over the years the low points have gone dark brown / black, presumably from accumulated dirt and water. It still looks pretty good but unfortunately it doesn't now match the drop down leaves which dont have these dark lines. My concern is that I'll go through the veneer if I try to sand it back and treat with Oxalic acid as I'll probably need to remove best part of 1mm to remove the varnish in the lowest points. Would scoring the dark lines using a fine blade allow me to treat locally? Any other ideas (apart from using a pencil to add dark lines to the grain on the leaves!)? Thanks

I had a saloon table that had both raised grain and mechanical damage without visible damage to lacquer.
Don't be tempted to try to sand down to the low points the veneer isn't thick enough.
Try steaming out any dents before starting any sanding.
I used repeated application of a soaked cotton tea towel and a hot steam iron.
This may work but as previously advised it may help to pin prick the laquer surface.
The steam heat encourages the natural fibrous tubes of the wood grain to expand.
Teak unless really dried out will always retain a small amount of moisture or oil and will expand with a little gentle heat.

 

[Concerto]

Thanks Concerto. It's a 1999 Moody. If the veneer was flat I've have no hesitation in removing the finish, and you're right it is lacquer, but I'm concerned that this is going to leave the low points which do look as if they have been coloured in with a pencil. Are you suggesting that these all need to be scraped back individually? There aren't any dents, just natural indentations in the grain.

When I stripped my table, I was concerned that a ring from a hot drink would show through, but it all turned out even with no colour distortion.

With any refinishing you cannot tell what will happen. You must remove all the existing lacquer, if not it will show a creamy white patches. They can still be removed after the first coat. The only worry I would have if there were cracks in the veneer that are holding some dirt and then someone has used a wax filler to fill the cracks. In a case like this then you will need to degrease the area before refinishing. If it is only slight indentaions in the grain, then carefully clean them out. Then slowly fill the cracks with lacquer until then are flush with the surface, then start finishing all the woodwork.

 

[johnalison]

It could be that the blackening of the grooves is caused by mould and that treatment with a fungicide and a good clean would restore the appearance, which could then be followed with a light varnish of choice.

 

[Ammonite]

It could be that the blackening of the grooves is caused by mould and that treatment with a fungicide and a good clean would restore the appearance, which could then be followed with a light varnish of choice.

I did try a few dabs of HG Mould Spray which I've found to be really good at removing black mould but it didn't touch it. It's basically bleach but it must have something else in it as it seems to work a bit better (against mould)

 

[robmcg]

Your table will have been lacquered from the factory. The lacquer is now failing. The dark bit in the grain is mildew that tracks along the natural 'veins' in the wood. Fortunately the solution is quite straightforward. Mask off the table and strip it using paint/varnish stripper. Once stripped, clean with white spirit. When dry, use a mould/mildew spray (something like Astonish) to clean the grain. Allow to dry and sand lightly with a fine sandpaper. Clean again with white spirit. Revarnish with a suitable varnish of your choice - minimum of 5 coats. You could relacquer but it is slightly more fiddly and doesn't seem to have the same longevity as a good varnish.

 

[KAM]

Avoid sanding at all costs. I used paint stripper but it needs to be the strong stuff with dichloromethane which has been removed from most strippers these days. Failing that a hot air gun and square edged scraper. Some areas of the veneer on my boat had been sanded through by the previous owner. Touching in with carefully tinted brown model makers paint worked really well finished with 5 or 6 coats of ronseal satin and Matt mixed 50/50. I've also used this on the odd mouldy area. Didn't have much luck with italic acid or bleach.

 

[Graham376]

Thanks Concerto. It's a 1999 Moody. If the veneer was flat I've have no hesitation in removing the finish, and you're right it is lacquer, but I'm concerned that this is going to leave the low points which do look as if they have been coloured in with a pencil. Are you suggesting that these all need to be scraped back individually? There aren't any dents, just natural indentations in the grain.

Edit: the black lines look like the lines you get on a piece of oak but have formed in the indentations in the teak veneer that follow the grain

If your 1999 boat has been finished the same as my 1988 one, Moody stained all the cabinetwork before lacquering but didn't use grain filler so black in the grain will most likely remain.

 

[Ammonite]

If your 1999 boat has been finished the same as my 1988 one, Moody stained all the cabinetwork before lacquering but didn't use grain filler so black in the grain will most likely remain.

In my case Im pretty sure its usage related as although the drop down leaves have the same slight grooves / grain in them they are in very good condition and only the top fixed section has the dark lines. You raise a good point though. Could I remove the lacquer on the flat sections and use grain filler to disguise the dark lines having used an appropriate mould / stain treatment before refinishing? I'm assuming I'm going to have to refinish all three sections to ensure they match ?
https://amzn.eu/d/gYtOGkg

 

[Graham376]

In my case Im pretty sure its usage related as although the drop down leaves have the same slight grooves / grain in them they are in very good condition and only the top fixed section has the dark lines. You raise a good point though. Could I remove the lacquer on the flat sections and use grain filler to disguise the dark lines having used an appropriate mould / stain treatment before refinishing? I'm assuming I'm going to have to refinish all three sections to ensure they match ?
https://amzn.eu/d/gYtOGkg

Sounds like your table is in much the same condition as ours, with the drop leaves no longer matching the top. Refinishing isn't my strong point but, I would start with a cabinet scraper to carefully remove the lacquer and take it from there, depending on what's found. If you're a member of MOA, I seem to remember some past posts/articles on joinery refurb.