Reducing sail - what next?

[joe17]

I have a 22 ft, fractional rigged, fin keeled boat.

Yesterday I was sailing to windward in 10 or 11 m/s wind (21 knots?). It felt great sailing, but I had was feeling the boat was on the edge (... of what I was comfortable with).

I was wondering what my next step would be in reducing sail if the wind increased further.

Does anyone have any other advice for what would be next step to depower the rig?

I had :

the one and only reef in the main.
the main halyard tight.
the main sheet hard in.
the traveller to leeward.
the jib halyard tight
the jib sheet hard in.
the back stay tight (although I wondered if that made much difference with a reef in?)
the jib was hard in and therefore causing the luff of the main to backwind.

the kicker was tight, but I hadnt done anything with that - should i?
The boat doesnt have a cunningham rigged, but the main does have a cringle in the right place - would that make any different?

I was thinking my next option would be to :
a) drop the main and continue under jib alone. I had a feeling that would be comfortable, but I would loose speed.
b) drop the jib - main alone is not the best setup for windward? And the main wouldnt be depowered by the backwinding from jib.
c) swap the job for the storm jib. That would reduce overall sail, and again wouldnt backwind the main.

Any advice what you would do next to depower the rig?

Thanks,
Joe

 

[blackbeard]

a. Short term solution; ease the main sheet a tad while maintaining same course.
b. Long term solution; get at least one more reef fitted.

 

[oceanfroggie]

Sounds like a lot of work, solution, drive a mobo. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Sorry couldn't resist, hope you get an informed answer from a true sailor

 

[Lakesailor]

I'd play with the main like a dinghy. Suprising how much calmer a little more main sheet makes things. With it being gusty here I find it easier than bothering with reefing, which is a pain as it's roller reefing. On the other hand if the wind speed builds steadily where you are another reef would seem the way forward.

 

[Skyva_2]

Play the main as suggested.

You can also try depowering the jib if you can move the sheet lead forward and induce twist in the head of the sail. A cunningham might make a difference if the outhaul is already tight?

 

[Guest]

While sailing with that set-up ......

That feeling of on the edge can spoil a good day !! Often it's instinct telling you something is not right and most often its right.

I would actually given that set-up ease the foresail to let the main power up on the luff .... once it starts in - drop the main sheet a touch to maintain a slot of jib to main ... adjusting each to get max from sails shape ... letting the boat come upright a touch and feeling more comfortable. The underwater shape will improve .... speed will probably remain similar or even edge up a decimal or so ....

Putting a boat on edge is not always the answer to speed ... sail shape / set and slot is .....

Oh and I would get at least another reef made up in the main .... one is not enough .....

I used to race / sail out of Tallinn and know how it is in that part of the world ... fantastic sailing and I was glad of the 12 different sails I had for my boat !!

 

[Pye_End]

Put the traveller to windward - ease sheet a little and off with the kicker a little - give twist to the top of the sail but keeps sail angles.

Reef further!

 

[simonfraser]

sort out further reefing options, one day you will not just be on edge but dangerously overcanvassed

my main has 3 reefs and the genoa is on a furler

 

[gandy]

[ QUOTE ]
Put the traveller to windward - ease sheet a little and off with the kicker a little - give twist to the top of the sail but keeps sail angles.

Reef further!

[/ QUOTE ] That's interesting. Is that what you do on a larger boat?

On the Wayfarer, where we were often overpowered, we needed to do exactly the opposite. Kicker on hard, outhaul and Cunningham hard to get the mainsail really flat. Then let the traveller down and play the mainsheet. The flattened sail "feathers" rather than flogging.

 

[Parsonsheath]

I have the same set up as you, if the wind increases I don't need as much sail up, and reducing quickly means I am still well within "my comfort zone" and the boat may well be at the same speed but I can still control the boat without feeling the boat is controlling me.

Agree I have a lot to learn with sail set up and control, but 3 reefs and a roller genoa mean I can still enjoy the sailing longer!

 

[Sheff]

[/ QUOTE ] That's interesting. Is that what you do on a larger boat?

On the Wayfarer, where we were often overpowered, we needed to do exactly the opposite. Kicker on hard, outhaul and Cunningham hard to get the mainsail really flat. Then let the traveller down and play the mainsheet. The flattened sail "feathers" rather than flogging.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree with you on that.

Going to windward a flat main is a depowered main, although downwind the opposite is true.

I have raced on a 44 footer with a powerful main and hydraulic vang set-up. If gybing downwind in strong winds we had to release the vang to induce twist to the main and it was amazing how much easier it was to haul in the mainsheet as we gybed.

 

[stevebirch2002]

Nigel - Reefing !!! Took you eight years and and a whole day/night of nagging by me and Jimbuoy (not to mention a F6 in Cowes entrance) to get you to instally a jury-rigged reef on SuperAnne !!!!

 

[Gargleblaster]

[ QUOTE ]
the back stay tight (although I wondered if that made much difference with a reef in?)

[/ QUOTE ]
With a fractional rig more back stay should flatten the main depowering your sail.
My previous boat was a 22' fractional rig and I found my first action before even thinking of reefing was to flatten the main as much as possible using mast bend, cunningham and the outhaul, then I'd change my foresail down to a storm jib before my first reef.
All boats are different but in my experience with a fractional rig keep as much main as possible for as long as possible then start reefing. Also get rid of your foresail completely if necessary, a fractional should be able to sail without it if necessary.

 

[andy_wilson]

In terms of flattening the sails to de-power them, do you have an outhaul adjustment on the main, this should be tight to flatten the foot.

Does the foresail halyard hit the sheave box leaving the luff still full, or does it tension the luff fully?

Is the sheeting angle for the foresail pointing to the centre of the luff? You could move it aft to promote twist at the top in an attempt to de-power al la the mains'l.

As far a sail setting, you could as suggested release the kicker a little to spill wind form the top of the sail (may need leach adjustment to stop it fluttering). You could luff into the gusts (noisy and wears the sails IMHO), you could re-trim to sail off-wind a little to reduce apparent wind speed (no good if destination is on the nose however.

After all this, set the storm jib.

After that, see which sail drives best to windward and drop the other one.

After that drop the sails and use the motor.

After that get another reef point in the main, and consider a further intermediate headsail.

 

[Guest]

Never look at a mechanics car ....

What I do on my boat has no bearing on the matter .... and anyway - as you found out later - AND you can ask Jim .... I had already sorted blocks, lines etc. long time ago - just never used 'em !!
Your nagging just made me get 'em out and use 'em .... must admit was better !!!!

 

[Guest]

I\'m not starting an argument ...

It is generally reckoned that in light airs to ease the mains foot to allow the sail to "belly" gain roach - so that light air has max effect. As wind increases foot etc. to be tightened to maintain mains effect as having too much "belly" then is not desired ....

 

[joe17]

Thanks for the advice.

A 2nd reef seems to be popular. The mainsail is only a few years old, so its probably worth doing it.

Concerning the outhall - I was thinking the outhall setting was redundant once the reef was in? It must be the tightness of the reefing line that defines the shape of the foot then? On reflection I think this is an area for improvement as putting the reef in was a bit of a mess and I think that line could have been set better.

I was thinking the mast bend was also less important as when reefed the bit that bends most is not having any sail connected.

For the foresail I have managed to get the halyard very tight with no problems. I have also got the cars set as far back as they go (on their very short tracks). I have 2 sets of tracks. One set far inboard on the coachroof for the job and another back on the cockpit sides for the genoa. It seems quite easy to get a nice, relatively flat, shape on the jib for heavier winds.

In gusty winds I have managed to play with the main sheet in to spill wind very well. The weather I was experiencing on Saturday was a nice constant wind with not much in the gusts, so I that tactic seemed to not offer too much in those conditions.

Looks like playing with the main sheet setting and the kicker is an area for more experimentation.

Thanks again for all the advice.

Joe.

 

[Danny]

[ QUOTE ]
Concerning the outhall - I was thinking the outhall setting was redundant once the reef was in? It must be the tightness of the reefing line that defines the shape of the foot then? On reflection I think this is an area for improvement as putting the reef in was a bit of a mess and I think that line could have been set better.

[/ QUOTE ]I think you're absolutely right there. Usually the pendant comes vertically up from the boom to a cringle in the leech then down to the back of the boom. In which case the more you tighten , the lower the cringle gets to the boom (until it touches the boom), the better the angle the pennant has for tensioning the foot of the sail. Need to make sure that the tack end of the sail is securely attached at the gooseneck as well, of course.