Red Diesel saga

[JumbleDuck]

No they didn't.
The situation is still the same as last year: they still care, but are not taking any action whilst they (and everyone else) awaits the final EU ruling - expected spring 2016.

Except that it seems that last year they officially didn't care and now they officially care but unofficially don't care and might decide to care if they feel like it.

 

[Tranona]

Why do you think we should pay tax on fuel for using the sea, do you also support the taxing of fuel for farmers who are exempt because they do not use the roads? Whatever they call it fuel was taxed to pay for and maintain the road networks in the country required for transport. Logically as boats and farmers do not use the roads they were exempted from any taxation. This is a logical position. There is no doubt in my mind that the effect of rising fuel prices contributed to the demise of Sealine.

Can't see any reason why fuel used for leisure boating should be taxed at a lower rate than any other private use. No conflict with lower duties for certain industries. The problem only arises because fuel suppliers in coastal locations have both types of users, but mostly have only red supplies, either for historical reasons pre dating the EU Directive or because their dominant market is commercial users. Whichever solution is applied one class of users will "lose" and others will "gain". At the moment we have an intellectually unsupportable fudge aimed at reducing the "loss" to pleasure boats, but there is no reason why white should not be the norm in coastal locations (or both in areas of high demand) with the concession to commercial users being given through the business taxation system.

Not sure you can directly link fuel prices to the demise of one builder. The fall in the overall market for power boats comes from a number of factors that affected the whole economy. It is common when demand falls for one or more suppliers to fail - often the weaker ones. The smaller market, however, does not seem to have deterred the Hanse group from entering the market by buying the rights to the name and designs, presumably because they gave a head start into the market.

It is convenient for some to follow your line of argument to support the status quo - as indeed was the case when the directive first came out, but to do so ignores the wider changes in the economy which have a much greater impact that one element.

 

[Tranona]

On the Medway all yachts who moor here are charged just over £60 for a river licence to help pay for buoyage, etc. It goes to Peel Ports, the controllers of the river and ports. No doubt many other boaters also have local "taxes" to pay.

The distinction is quite clear. Local harbour dues fund navigation aids (and general maintenance) within the harbour. Once outside the confines of harbours and ports these services are funded primarily out of general taxation with a small direct contribution from commercial shipping by way of light dues. Pleasure boats make no specific contribution to these costs.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

The seppos get free ENC charts coz they have already paid for them via taxs. We get to pay twice

No, because they aren't paid for by taxes. The UKHO is a Trading Fund, which means that it has to sell its products to cover costs. The Government gives it funds to cover the proportion of its work that is seen as "National good"; in other words, to cover that part of its work which supports government objectives. This doesn't cover the full costs of the UKHO.

 

[Heckler]

The first and the last.

Your stupidity is only bettered by your stupidity in posting such a stupid picture!
S

 

[Heckler]

That anyone could possibly take the Daily Mail as an authoritative source on anything to do with the EU, or indeed on anything to do with Europe.

Weird!
S

 

[JumbleDuck]

Weird!

I don't think the Mail or its readers have ever really got over the result of WW2. Still, at least they show consistency:

The way stateless Jews from Germany are pouring in from every port of this country is becoming an outrage. The number of aliens entering the country through the back door is a problem to which the Daily Mail has repeatedly pointed
Daily Mail, 20 August 1938​

Change "Jews to "Muslims", "Germany" to "Africa" and throw in a few "so-called"s and you'd be hard pressed to spot that in a current Mail.

 

[Biggles Wader]

I don't think the Mail or its readers have ever really got over the result of WW2. Still, at least they show consistency:

The way stateless Jews from Germany are pouring in from every port of this country is becoming an outrage. The number of aliens entering the country through the back door is a problem to which the Daily Mail has repeatedly pointed
Daily Mail, 20 August 1938​

Change "Jews to "Muslims", "Germany" to "Africa" and throw in a few "so-called"s and you'd be hard pressed to spot that in a current Mail.

I bet they use illegal red diesel to get here too.Sorry about the fred drift.

 

[ffiill]

Along with the road fund licence the tax on white diesel is one applicable for vehicles used on public highways and is supposed to pay for our roads.You can drive any vehicle you likewith red diesel in the tank off public Highways.
I am sure you will find this to be the case for road users in Inverie and the Knoydart area in general wherethe road networkis private.
As we do not drive our boats on public highways we are not eligible to pay this tax.
So isnt it about time that a supply of diesel fuel dyed bright purple is allocated to the marine leisure market or leisure boat users being provided with a suitable marker to distinguish their fuel from white or red diesel?
By all mean tax the fuel at say 6% just as red is taxed at 5% but I feel strongly that leisure boat users should challenge this abuse of tax collecting by HM customs and excise.

 

[sailorman]

Along with the road fund licence the tax on white diesel is one applicable for vehicles used on public highways and is supposed to pay for our roads.You can drive any vehicle you likewith red diesel in the tank off public Highways.
I am sure you will find this to be the case for road users in Inverie and the Knoydart area in general wherethe road networkis private.
As we do not drive our boats on public highways we are not eligible to pay this tax.
So isnt it about time that a supply of diesel fuel dyed bright purple is allocated to the marine leisure market or leisure boat users being provided with a suitable marker to distinguish their fuel from white or red diesel?
By all mean tax the fuel at say 6% just as red is taxed at 5% but I feel strongly that leisure boat users should challenge this abuse of tax collecting by HM customs and excise.

I do & subscribe to the RYA (since 1974) who hopefully, fight on my behalf

 

[bobgarrett]

Along with the road fund licence the tax on white diesel is one applicable for vehicles used on public highways and is supposed to pay for our roads.You can drive any vehicle you likewith red diesel in the tank off public Highways.
I am sure you will find this to be the case for road users in Inverie and the Knoydart area in general wherethe road networkis private.
As we do not drive our boats on public highways we are not eligible to pay this tax.
So isnt it about time that a supply of diesel fuel dyed bright purple is allocated to the marine leisure market or leisure boat users being provided with a suitable marker to distinguish their fuel from white or red diesel?
By all mean tax the fuel at say 6% just as red is taxed at 5% but I feel strongly that leisure boat users should challenge this abuse of tax collecting by HM customs and excise.

Sorry to disagree but no tax charged in the UK is ring-fenced for a particular form of expenditure. So fuel duty is not allocated to roads.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Along with the road fund licence the tax on white diesel is one applicable for vehicles used on public highways and is supposed to pay for our roads.

No it's not. We don't have hypothecated taxes. Taxes and duties on road vehicle fuels, like VED, go into the general taxation pot

 

[haydude]

The sooner we tell the EC to kiss my aspidestra the better, roll on the referendum! Brussels are hell bent on more integration, well sorry, the whole mess is going to come grinding to a HALT!
S

I want to keep Red Diesel indeed, even if last year I used only about 80 litres in total, the less I pay in tax the better.

But I think that an EU exit is going only to make the problem worse, because at that point there will be far greater issues than just Red Diesel. They could charge an import tax on everything, starting with diesel at that point, with no longer any protection as an EU state that still has some power of negotiation.

Imagine also being scrutinized and charged import on _every_ country you visit. Not a nice picture!
I can guarantee you that if the UK exits the first thing the EU neighbors will do is to make our life very difficult. And they can.

Ah! One more thing: do you want to bet that the first thing France will do is to open the gates at Sangatte and supply dinghies free of charge at the exit? No longer friends, no longer cooperation. They will _push_ all of their immigrants towards our shores!

 

[Kurrawong_Kid]

I want to keep Red Diesel indeed, even if last year I used only about 80 litres in total, the less I pay in tax the better.

But I think that an EU exit is going only to make the problem worse, because at that point there will be far greater issues than just Red Diesel. They could charge an import tax on everything, starting with diesel at that point, with no longer any protection as an EU state that still has some power of negotiation.

Imagine also being scrutinized and charged import on _every_ country you visit. Not a nice picture!
I can guarantee you that if the UK exits the first thing the EU neighbors will do is to make our life very difficult. And they can.

Ah! One more thing: do you want to bet that the first thing France will do is to open the gates at Sangatte and supply dinghies free of charge at the exit? No longer friends, no longer cooperation. They will _push_ all of their immigrants towards our shores!

I've just cruised to Belgium and France and back to the UK yesterday(after being storm bound a week!) with not a form to fill in or an official to see-no one even asked for a Shengen list. I remember in the 70's having to wait 2 hours with a yellow flag up before you could even go ashore!.....and in the 60's you were not allowed to leave the boat at all before the dreaded Customs man had deigned to turn up!

 

[Bru]

I've just cruised to Belgium and France and back to the UK yesterday(after being storm bound a week!) with not a form to fill in or an official to see-no one even asked for a Shengen list. I remember in the 70's having to wait 2 hours with a yellow flag up before you could even go ashore!.....and in the 60's you were not allowed to leave the boat at all before the dreaded Customs man had deigned to turn up!

We must have been almost within sight of each other out there yesterday!

The nice lady in the marina office at Gravelines wanted to see the ships papers but that was the only request for paperwork we encountered. In Belgium they were totally uninterested

 

[muyuu]

Red is generally more expensive that road pump white, our marina have fame free red ( so im told ) & the garage nxt door is cheaper

I assume the marina is pocketing the very significant difference. I doubt marinas would just give up that margin easily, I'd prepare for price hikes if they lost their red diesel margin revenue.

 

[muyuu]

And what will those of who reside at a marina where the rules state explicitly that we aren't allowed to handle fuel in cans do? It's a heritage dock with strict rules about fuel spillage etc, and handling fuel anywhere BUT the fuel dock is verboten. Given environmental regulations, I'd expect such rules to become more widespread in time. Furthermore, the dock is home to quite a lot of commercial vessels, and I'm sure that the sale of red diesel to commercial vessels is far greater than any potential sale of white diesel to non-commercial vessels would be. I use maybe 50 - 100 litres a year; they probably use 100 litres a trip!

Expect this to be much more prevalent if marinas have to compete in price with white diesel pumps. That would be a massive source of income disappearing for them.

 

[ditchcrawler]

If we leave the EU and they start charging import tax it will be self defeating.We import far more from the EU than we export by a considerable margin.

I know this is lounge stuff but had to reply.

 

[haydude]

Expect this to be much more prevalent if marinas have to compete in price with white diesel pumps. That would be a massive source of income disappearing for them.

I always wondered how Premiere Marinas advertise fuel at cost, but their diesel is more expensive than regular white diesel at the pump.

 

[maby]

I always wondered how Premiere Marinas advertise fuel at cost, but their diesel is more expensive than regular white diesel at the pump.

Petrol stations are probably able to negotiate significant discounts based on volume of sales.