Red Diesel Reprieve

[awol]

Except it's not ignorance. You assume I don't know about these things rather than that I quite properly ignored the things which have no bearing on the topic whatsoever. Perhaps better off sticking to the lounge with such an attitude.

Au contraire - if you ignore something, is that not a clear demonstration of ignorance? QED

 

[lustyd]

No, ignoring is being aware and deciding it's irrelevant, ignorance is a lack of understanding. Either way, calling me ignorant wasn't really necessary, was it?

 

[peteK]

So from April next year you wont be able to buy red diesel for propulsion but you can still use it for heating on inland and coastal waters,exept in Northern island.

 

[awol]

No, ignoring is being aware and deciding it's irrelevant, ignorance is a lack of understanding. Either way, calling me ignorant wasn't really necessary, was it?

I am fascinated what it is that Northern Ireland sees in the UK that stops them breaking away.

My apologies. I didn't realise you were "fascinated" by the knowledge you already had and neither needed nor were seeking an explanation. I misread your message and took it to indicate an ignorance of the factors in play in Northern Ireland.

 

[lustyd]

I was and am interested in the current reasons NI want to stay in the union. You started talking about events which happened centuries ago which do not affect the lives of anyone today in any way whatsoever. That doesn't make me ignorant, it makes you a bore.

 

[lustyd]

So from April next year you wont be able to buy red diesel for propulsion but you can still use it for heating on inland and coastal waters,exept in Northern island.

It would seem to boil down to NI is a part of Europe and excluded from Brexit to all intents and purposes, while Great Britain will carry on as ever

 

[awol]

I was and am interested in the current reasons NI want to stay in the union. You started talking about events which happened centuries ago which do not affect the lives of anyone today in any way whatsoever. That doesn't make me ignorant, it makes you a bore.

If you are allowed, may I recommend a trip to Belfast on 12th July when you can raise that point of view with any or many of the orange bedecked marchers? Whether you think history, or, what is worse, a perception of history skewed by bigotry and/or oppression, should have any bearing on the present should make a lively topic of conversation. Perhaps one answer to your "fascination" may be the major part that jobs funded directly and indirectly by the UK government has in the economy, a support that many believe will not be replicated by Dublin. For an explanation of why that is so I'm afraid you will need to look at the history.

 

[dgadee]

So from April next year you wont be able to buy red diesel for propulsion but you can still use it for heating on inland and coastal waters,exept in Northern island.

In GB you will do the tax split (60/40). You can use that fuel anywhere including NI or Europe so long as it is in your main tank. In NI you will not have the 60/40 split and will have to buy white diesel. However that will not stop you buying (60/40) in GB and using it in NI if it is in your main tank.

NI being relatively lawless (my Scots partner tells me after 5 years over here) many will just buy red diesel from a garage and claim they bought it up the Clyde.

 

[lustyd]

If you are allowed, may I recommend a trip to Belfast on 12th July when you can raise that point of view with any or many of the orange bedecked marchers?

The Cornish still celebrate darkie day. I wouldn't put too much stock in people dressed up and taking part in a tradition.

 

[[2574]]

Diesel used for propulsion purposes on leisure craft should be taxed, it’s bonkers that it currently isn’t. If we’re serious about dealing with the carbon problem then we need to change behaviours. Taxation has been used to modify behaviour since the beginning of taxation - fags, booze and current road fund licence taxation are current examples.

 

[Achosenman]

The Cornish still celebrate darkie day. I wouldn't put too much stock in people dressed up and taking part in a tradition.

If I may interject. History IS what drives the tribalism in NI. (Not forgetting the power and money for a few)
I served out there in the early '80s and I was astounded at how bitter some protagonists were about the past. IMHO it guides their actions and attitudes to this day.

On topic, I'd bet red will still find it's way into their tanks and a blind eye will be turned.

 

[awol]

If I may interject. History IS what drives the tribalism in NI. (Not forgetting the power and money for a few)
I served out there in the early '80s and I was astounded at how bitter some protagonists were about the past. IMHO it guides their actions and attitudes to this day.

On topic, I'd bet red will still find it's way into their tanks and a blind eye will be turned.

As I understand it leisure users can claim a rebate for non-propulsion use of white. I suspect there will be no need for blind red-eyes.

 

[lustyd]

In GB you will do the tax split (60/40). You can use that fuel anywhere including NI or Europe so long as it is in your main tank. In NI you will not have the 60/40 split and will have to buy white diesel. However that will not stop you buying (60/40) in GB and using it in NI if it is in your main tank.

NI being relatively lawless (my Scots partner tells me after 5 years over here) many will just buy red diesel from a garage and claim they bought it up the Clyde.

You mean the split that you choose between heating and propulsion. My last fill in December was 20/80 in favour of heat

 

[lustyd]

If I may interject. History IS what drives the tribalism in NI. (Not forgetting the power and money for a few)
I served out there in the early '80s and I was astounded at how bitter some protagonists were about the past. IMHO it guides their actions and attitudes to this day.

On topic, I'd bet red will still find it's way into their tanks and a blind eye will be turned.

Again though, nothing to do with what they get out of being in the United Kingdom, especially given that Great Britain has effectively abandoned NI and lumped them in with Ireland regardless. That would be a strange reason to want to stay in the Union if their goal was separation from Ireland.
There are angry old men everywhere ranting about all sorts of things, but that's not generally a good basis of whether you want to be the outcast in a crappy club vs going it alone or joining another club. Perpetuating the myth that something your granddad did is a good reason to vote a certain way is extremely harmful to a democracy, and suggesting that the pre-industrial world of 1600 should guide your choices in the space age is just silly.

 

[dgadee]

Diesel used for propulsion purposes on leisure craft should be taxed, it’s bonkers that it currently isn’t. If we’re serious about dealing with the carbon problem then we need to change behaviours. Taxation has been used to modify behaviour since the beginning of taxation - fags, booze and current road fund licence taxation are current examples.

It is taxed. You pay higher tax on the propulsion element (the 60%) and a lower tax on the heating element (40%). The whole point of making red diesel available to pleasure boats is for convenience and is not to make it tax free - lots of places don't want to have two pumps, one white and one red. Some marinas (I won't mention the Copelands in Donaghadee) even thought that working out the 60/40 split was too much hassle and gave up selling it.

 

[dgadee]

You mean the split that you choose between heating and propulsion. My last fill in December was 20/80 in favour of heat

Yes, 60/40 was for ease, but HMRC clearly say that they will accept any other sensible figure, particularly from liveaboards.

 

[chrishscorp]

Diesel used for propulsion purposes on leisure craft should be taxed, it’s bonkers that it currently isn’t. If we’re serious about dealing with the carbon problem then we need to change behaviours. Taxation has been used to modify behaviour since the beginning of taxation - fags, booze and current road fund licence taxation are current examples.

The last time I filled with Red diesel (2 1/2 yrs ago) I asked to pay 100% propulsion, brother in law who was on board and is also a skipper told me off and the pontoon staff broke into a cold sweat at the prospect of working it out, I think I ended up paying 80 / 20 prop/heat.
I now use tins and run on white diesel, the intention had been to tour Brittany last year

 

[lustyd]

Where do you buy tinned diesel?

 

[chrishscorp]

Where do you buy tinned diesel?

@ a tinned diesel shop

 

[SaltyC]

That had nothing to do with Brexit. Our poor education system and corrupt media were responsible for that horror show. Now we've set a precedent for breaking up unions the UK will be next. Impossible to argue for one union and not another as the arguments are the same.

To my total confusion a certain Madam North of the Border keeps banging on about not wanting to be part of a Union, but wants to be in the European union? Is it just me or is she making it up as she goes along?