Red Diesel Reprieve

[awol]

To my total confusion a certain Madam North of the Border keeps banging on about not wanting to be part of a Union, but wants to be in the European union? Is it just me or is she making it up as she goes along?

It's just you! The countries of the EU have similar rights and duties whereas the union with England is totally one-sided. There is a history of despising parcels of rogues.

 

[lustyd]

To my total confusion a certain Madam North of the Border keeps banging on about not wanting to be part of a Union, but wants to be in the European union? Is it just me or is she making it up as she goes along?

Being pro union doesn’t preclude thinking your neighbour is a poor choice I guess. To be fair the Scottish voted remain in both votes so they are consistent. Perhaps they think England wants to go it alone based on our actions, messaging and voting?

 

[mattonthesea]

Diesel used for propulsion purposes on leisure craft should be taxed, it’s bonkers that it currently isn’t. If we’re serious about dealing with the carbon problem then we need to change behaviours. Taxation has been used to modify behaviour since the beginning of taxation - fags, booze and current road fund licence taxation are current examples.

Agree with the sentiment but your examples are not entirely accurate . Social policy is based generally around money, education and law. While taxes on tobacco, booze and road tax have increased manyfold over the years, they had relatively little affect on behaviour (road tax did when they started varying it). With fags, education did little either; people continued to smoke despite knowing the horrors of probable outcome. It wasn't until the law changed that there was a significant level of reduction. Without the law change then I think we will be using diesel for ever.

Subsidies work with varying success (think butter mountain or milk lake). Solar panels were weird things that hippies used until the gov't subsidised them. I know the yottie fraternity is small but I wonder if subsidising the electric or hydrogen market would work. If I could move to Li batteries or H cells without great expense then I would. Can you imagine if JenBenBav went down those routes? Once they did then the prices would fall.

It seems to me that this reprieve is a retrograde step and that the gov't should be enabling us to move from diesel (NB notwithstanding all the technical difficulties) as much as possible.

Right now I just want to go sailing

 

[dgadee]

It seems to me that this reprieve is a retrograde step and that the gov't should be enabling us to move from diesel (NB notwithstanding all the technical difficulties) as much as possible.

How can it be retrograde? It is neutral. It just means that we pay fuel tax on red diesel rather than white diesel, and makes it easier for those outwith the busy yachting centres to get fuel. I am not sure why people think red diesel from marinas or harbours is tax free.

Having just put a new engine in a boat, I'm bu@@ered if I am going to change it to anything else. My diesel consumption on the boat is a tiny fraction of that in my car usage.

 

[Bodach na mara]

Is it just me or does the proposal in the link in post #1 not say that from April 2022 all fuel used will be subject to the same duty (as road fuel) except for specific exceptions. And propelling private vessels for pleasure purposes does not seem to be one of the exceptions. The issue of fuel in Northern Ireland is already scheduled (according to the 2020 Finance Act) to be changed in June this year, requiring pleasure vessels to use white diesel. And please do not use any reply to raise irrelevant political points!

By the way, in response to those who seem to think that red diesel is tax and duty free, if only! It is subject to the full tax and duty of white diesel and petrol at the point of sale. There is a concession for the proportion used for non-propulsion purposes but as I read the information in the link, that concession may disappear.

 

[geem]

Again though, nothing to do with what they get out of being in the United Kingdom, especially given that Great Britain has effectively abandoned NI and lumped them in with Ireland regardless. That would be a strange reason to want to stay in the Union if their goal was separation from Ireland.
There are angry old men everywhere ranting about all sorts of things, but that's not generally a good basis of whether you want to be the outcast in a crappy club vs going it alone or joining another club. Perpetuating the myth that something your granddad did is a good reason to vote a certain way is extremely harmful to a democracy, and suggesting that the pre-industrial world of 1600 should guide your choices in the space age is just silly.

If your parents and grandparent tell you how something is all through your childhood it is very hard to shake those beliefs in later life. Those beliefs become ingrained and almost impossible to change despite evidence in front of you. That is what you are up against

 

[dgadee]

Is it just me or does the proposal in the link in post #1 not say that from April 2022 all fuel used will be subject to the same duty (as road fuel) except for specific exceptions. And propelling private vessels for pleasure purposes does not seem to be one of the exceptions. The issue of fuel in Northern Ireland is already scheduled (according to the 2020 Finance Act) to be changed in June this year, requiring pleasure vessels to use white diesel. And please do not use any reply to raise irrelevant political points!

By the way, in response to those who seem to think that red diesel is tax and duty free, if only! It is subject to the full tax and duty of white diesel and petrol at the point of sale. There is a concession for the proportion used for non-propulsion purposes but as I read the information in the link, that concession may disappear.

Reform of red diesel and other rebated fuels entitlement is from 3rd March 2021. You are looking at the consultation documents when you click on Post 1 link.

 

[awol]

I thought that the budget gave the "good" news that rebated red for leisure craft non-propulsion was being retained

From the link in Post #1
"At Budget 2021, the government announced its decision not to change the treatment of private pleasure craft in Great Britain, where they will continue to be able to use red diesel and pay their fuel supplier the difference between the red diesel rate and that for white diesel on the proportion they intend to use for propulsion."

.... and on the subject of white diesel for Noriron
"Alongside that change, the government will introduce a new relief scheme under which private pleasure craft users in Northern Ireland will be able to claim a relief for the proportion of their fuel that will be used for non-propulsion, meaning they will not pay a higher rate of duty than they currently do on this fuel."

 

[Seven Spades]

Yes, looks to have thrown NI under a nautical bus this time.

How will a NI based UK flagged boat mange to navigate around the Uk without buying red diesel?

And the related paper on consultation findings says it will be no longer permitted to “use” red diesel for propulsion in NI, not just “buy”.
So will visiting yachts from Britain need to sail on and off the pontoon beeths in Bangor marina?

Simply they are only going to restrict the sale of red diesel in Ireland not its use. You cannot legislate away red diesel when it can be legally purchased in the channel islands and many other nations around the world.

 

[dgadee]

Simply they are only going to restrict the sale of red diesel in Ireland not its use. You cannot legislate away red diesel when it can be legally purchased in the channel islands and many other nations around the world.

Agree. Purchase and use are two separate elements.

 

[Blue Sunray]

Simply they are only going to restrict the sale of red diesel in Ireland not its use. You cannot legislate away red diesel when it can be legally purchased in the channel islands and many other nations around the world.

Re-state as

"You cannot legislate away handguns when they can be legally purchased in the channel islands and many other nations around the world."

and the flaw in your reasoning becomes apparent.

 

[dunedin]

Simply they are only going to restrict the sale of red diesel in Ireland not its use. You cannot legislate away red diesel when it can be legally purchased in the channel islands and many other nations around the world.

But that was NOT the wording of what was announced - it was banning “use” rather than “purchase”.

You could rightly argue that seeking to ban USE from JUNE 2021 (as opposed to purchase, and a changeover from April 2022) is a bad idea, but this wouldn’t be the first bad and unworkable idea from the current Government and HMRC regarding Northern Ireland.
Representations are being made to HMRC to clarify, and hopefully correct, this bad proposal for NI, but we will have to wait and see their response