Red Diesel - back on TV news this am

Dogwatch,

You have not quite grasped it. Less people meant each individual business has to raise prices to maintain income. On windermere LDNPA lease out the moorings and collect the Licensing fee. All else is Private Marinas. Boats can and do leave (like us) for other shores whilst the others have proportionally more cost. If you are going to pay full wack diesel then boat may as well be in Spain or France. This means less people (maybe?) in UK Marinas and so owners put up price to squeeze remaining customers. When customers scream they stop increases and also reduce CAPEX on Maintenance and development so the Marina facilities reduce in quality.

It is a bad circle to get into to. On windermere certain users wanted the ban. I was talking to one such user the other day whos license fee has gone up from £18 a year to £68 a year and who could stay on free jetties overnight if he had a mooring. Now he pays £8 a night! End result he no longer walks into bowness fore a pint or two on Saturday night but sits on his mooring and has a quiet can instead. You will be surprised at who suffer the most...not the wealthiest (at first) but those strugling to enjoy their hobby.

So Price (Tax) increases are bad for all. Then of course if less people are using fuel there will inevitably be less places to buy it from (think Petrol and LPG) so then it is self defeatist.

Of course all people will not give up, not even the majority. But it will effect those with the least disposable income...and those who rely on them.

Sorry to preach.. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Paul
 
"Do you have any feet left to shoot or stuff in your mouth"

I was simply mentioning what I heard on my local news, so get your head back up your ar-----le cretin!
/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
Look at the cost of road fuel and how that has risen in the last year, no effect that i can see on cars on the road, worse if anything. Also the cost of marine diesel has shot up in the past 2 years and again there seems to be no sign of the Armagedon that was meant to be.

Perhaps I should hold off buying a bigger boat for a few months and grab myself a bargain if what you say is true /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Anyway according to some on here 40hrs a year is the average, so the extra cost of the fuel compared with all the other costs e.g. Depreciation, finance interest, insurance, mooring, servicing, equipment, gadgets, lifting in and out, antifoul e.t.c. is a miniscule amount. All a load of old hype in my opinion, just cut down on cigarettes and a few good meals and you are no worse off e.g. 40hrs x 11 gallons per hour with a price rise of even 50p ltr is less than £1,000 extra per year /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif So where do you get this big idea that it will ruin boating? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
>>>
ltr is less than £1,000 extra per year So where do you get this big idea that it will ruin boating?
>>>
From the large numbers of people who can't afford an extra £1000 per year, don't smoke or drink much anyway etc. If you are using your boat for 40 hours per year then frankly you would do better to spend the money on jet fuel to somewhere exotic. Apparently that won't be taxed, even if it is aviation fuel used for private purposes.

As for not happening abroad, how many shoestring boaters are there? Remember, their fuel is a lot cheaper than our road fuel, but it won't work that way in Bliar's Britain.

What might I get in return for the tax?

Feck all if I'm lucky, rather less is the likely outcome. Withdraw from the EU, it starts to make sense.
 
Andrew, Andrew, Andrew

Just move away from the dark side - get a little boat with flappy things and reliable underpowed diesel auxilary and all these worries will fade away - and you won't me making nasty noises or polluting much either.

As you don't drive, that'll make you the greenest person on the forum.
 
Sorry Rupert, not possible. All weekend getting nowhere would not make for domestic harmony and a SWMBO who works some Saturdays would mean ending up with a day potter rather than getting away. A club pontoon mooring on the Thames is very significantly cheaper than a mud berth in Chichester Harbour, roughly 25% of the cost, with "all tide" access. But not very practical for a saily boat with space for five:-) Central London in three or four hours is a bit better than The Folly or Littlehampton too:-)

As for green, I shall do it by choice, not compulsion. That way it is generously interpreted rather than grudgingly so. If there was a carbon credits system I'd use relatively little on personal transport thus leaving it over for boating.

If the NHS paid me more I'd have (as well) a little raggie 20 footer for the occasional overnighter with beers though:-) Last one didn't even have an aux 'cos I couldt afford it, just a couple of home made sweeps.
 
I hadn't realised you were on the river - so you travel up from Hampshire to Sunbury, with everyone else presumably going the other way?

Surely your fuel costs can't be that huge, though, given the speed limits, compared to a lot of the moboers?
 
Re: Red Diesel - \'TWILL HURT ME!

Blimey. it's hard to find the sense in this thread, wot wiv all the prejudice 'n all . . . BUT, as devotees will have worked out by now, I am (is?) a MOBO by choice AND by force of circumstance, namely retirement and Anno Domini. The recent little trip Round the Island proved, if proof were needed, that I can still helm to windward better than most, but as for the hassle and expense of organising crew every weekend to pull those strings and get the yot moving - forget it. So I've settled for a little semi-displacement angler that I can step on board, turn the key, and go. On my own. Whenever the tide serves. At about 10 miles = 8 litres = £4 per hour. Last season I logged 260 hours, that's just under £1k on fuel. Now someone wants to double it?
You can't expect me to be a happy bunny!!
 
Re: Red Diesel - \'TWILL HURT ME!

I'd be happy to double my fuel bill IF .. and only IF it could be shown that the extra tax paid had a positive impact to the boating community as a whole rather that just create another revenue scheme ....
 
Re: Red Diesel - \'TWILL HURT ME!

Talking to a local (inland) boatyard told me of one problem which seems to have been missed here. They told me that if red were taken away they would have to stop selling diesel altogether as they wouldn't be able to compete with road diesel outlets, it wouldn't be worth the paperwork involved for the few customers who would be buying their higher priced fuel.
Lots of unhappy boaters lugging cans of diesel up and down the country.
 
\"but the seas cost nothing\"

So bouyage, the MCA and Environment Agency cost nothing too?

There isn't a single tax that is ringfenced. Fag duty doesn't pay for lung and cancer units, road tax doesn't go on roads, and it is all arbitary except for the fact that wherever it comes from, it all gets put in a pot to pay for all the pubic services.

The only unjust bit is the money wasted inthe process. Sort that out and spend the savings on unemployment benefit I say!
 
Re: Red Diesel - \'TWILL HURT ME!

If we had no fuel duty on cars then I'd agree we shouldn't on boats either, but as we do tax cars, then why make a favourable exception for something used purely for pleasure and yet keep taxing a necessity.

Of course, if duty was put on airline fuel as well, then we'd really be getting somewhere, instead of just playing around the margins.
 
Re: \"but the seas cost nothing\"

[ QUOTE ]
The only unjust bit is the money wasted inthe process. Sort that out and spend the savings on unemployment benefit I say!

[/ QUOTE ]I would stop that as well and force the layabouts back to work!
--------------------
hammer.thumb.gif
"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity"
sailroom <span style="color:red">The place to auction your previously loved boatie bits</span>
 
[ QUOTE ]
I hadn't realised you were on the river - so you travel up from Hampshire to Sunbury, with everyone else presumably going the other way?

Surely your fuel costs can't be that huge, though, given the speed limits, compared to a lot of the moboers?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup, point and giggle each way at the queue to get through Hindhead:-)

And also true, but there again, unlike many of the comfortably off moboers I have to boat, drink, eat curry and feed a family/pay mortgage on an NHS IT salary:-) I also like to go downstream from Teddington whenever possible and that starts to rack up the cost. Even working the tides its 100 or so litres to the Medway and another 100 back. Once or twice per year its £100 for a big jolly but £225 for the same jolly would be less viable. £3-400 in fuel to take the boat to Bruges and back for the family hols is tolerable as family hols and is the plan for 2007 if fuel is still affordable, but £800+ takes us all to the family in Spain instead, tossing out carbon willy nilly into the upper atmosphere.
 
>>>
If we had no fuel duty on cars then I'd agree we shouldn't on boats either, but as we do tax cars, then why make a favourable exception for something used purely for pleasure and yet keep taxing a necessity.
>>>

Car is not a neccesity. I don't get into one more often that once per week.
 
Re: Heating oil.

Would it be technically/legally possible to decant some duty free home heating oil, put it in a boat fuel tank and then claim it was just for heating one's second home?
 
>>>
If we had no fuel duty on cars then I'd agree we shouldn't on boats either, but as we do tax cars, then why make a favourable exception for something used purely for pleasure and yet keep taxing a necessity.
>>>

Car is not a neccesity. I don't get into one more often that once per week. Now tax on beer, that's not right.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Car is not a neccesity. I don't get into one more often that once per week. Now tax on beer, that's not right.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, yes, I agree and I'd be the first to get into an anti-car rant, but one thing at a time, eh.
 
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