Recreational Craft Directive (RCD) problem

[Peter]

Try to find a way forward with a RCD problem, seems to me regulation is making older yachts unsalable and must apply to an awful lot of boats.

As a seller my problem is trying to prove the yacht is exempt from RCD with fairly limited history. Looking for some help on a way forward, before suggesting have talked to RYA and they have given me some good information.

Yacht history, home built in New Zealand in 1983, have e-mail evidence stating but no receipts from the self-build. No history until sold to UK citizen in 1991 with bill of sale, at this time the yacht was then UK registered. Then some marine receipts showing the yacht was in Spain, for 1992 and 1993, which would cover the yacht for VAT exception. For 1997 to 1998 some invoices for work done on the yacht when it was in Alimera (excuse spelling). In 2004 invoices to show the yacht was in the UK. Then in 2005 bill of sale when we purchased her.

Just trying to find a way forward as RYA info seem to imply we might have to get the yacht RCD assessed which costs a lot of money, around £6000.00. So looking for any advice on how to resolve this RCD issue, get a way forward whatever.

Thanks
Peter

 

[Gordonmc]

My reading is that your invoices for work carried out in Spain in 1997 and 1998 are significant. A key exemption for requirement to comply with the RCD is if the vessel went onto the market or into service in the EU before 16th June 1998.
In my case my US built boat was taken to France before that date and later sold to a UK subject.
The most important papers he passed on to me was an invoice for VAT paid in Le Havre and marina receipts from France and Belgium, all dated prior to 16/06/1998.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Doesn't the UK bill of sale, 1991, prove the boat was in service in the EU prior to the intro of RCD, and thus grandfather it? Assorted subsequent receipts show that it stayed in the EU and hasn't been re-exported.

 

[Keith 66]

She was built in 83 then sold to a UK citizen in 91 & was registered as British, She was in the EU flagged as British in 92 & 93. The RCD does not apply to any boat placed on the market before june the 16th 1996.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/1353/contents/made.
No Worries!

 

[xxyyzz]

Aside from the timing issues, I vaguely recall someone suggesting that you can get a Cat D certificate relatively cheaply.

Does anyone know how or how much?

 

[Peter]

additional info to this reply

Doesn't the UK bill of sale, 1991, prove the boat was in service in the EU prior to the intro of RCD, and thus grandfather it? Assorted subsequent receipts show that it stayed in the EU and hasn't been re-exported.

.

Additional information against the 1991 bill of sale which may alter replies, the yacht was given as in European waters, no proof, but the bill of sale addresses show both individuals resideing in Australia but the buyer, the guy we brought the boat off is a UK citizen working in Australia at the time.

 

[ean_p]

Aside from the timing issues, I vaguely recall someone suggesting that you can get a Cat D certificate relatively cheaply.

Does anyone know how or how much?

Me thinks that it may be 'self-certified' !

 

[Tranona]

Based on what you have said seems pretty certain it would be considered as being in the EU before 1998 and therefore exempt from compliance with RCD.

There appears to be little in the way of a mechanism for imposing penalties for non-compliance unless a boat is newly imported and sold, so think there is little danger of you getting into trouble for selling it here - if anybody has committed an offence it is the person you bought it from as he is the one who arguably placed it on the market post 1998.

I guess the only concern is that a prospective purchaser might query the lack of a CE mark, but think that highly unlikely.

There is rarely any kind of check on CE marking on any boat, never mind one 30 years old. To any official looking at the paperwork you have, this is a UK owned boat kept in the EU, so nothing to arouse any suspicions.

Personally, I would ignore the issue and just get on and sell it.

 

[trapezeartist]

Aside from the timing issues, I vaguely recall someone suggesting that you can get a Cat D certificate relatively cheaply.

Does anyone know how or how much?

Well it should be cheap and easy. Doesn't Cat D just mean it will float in the bath?

 

[penfold]

There is rarely any kind of check on CE marking on any boat, never mind one 30 years old. To any official looking at the paperwork you have, this is a UK owned boat kept in the EU, so nothing to arouse any suspicions.

Personally, I would ignore the issue and just get on and sell it.

This is pretty much my take on it; if I were to import a boat(which I have considered twice) the VAT is getting paid and the RCD is getting politely ignored.

 

[EugeneR]

I seem to remember that CE Proof can give you a certificate confirming CE status eg exempt based on their review of the evidence.

They can also do CE cert for a fraction of RYA cost. So would IMCI.

 

[xxyyzz]

Well it should be cheap and easy. Doesn't Cat D just mean it will float in the bath?

Yes, but since no-one cares about the rating, the point would be to make it legally sellable.

 

[Searush]

Until some Froggie official frogets that you are UK registered & fines you for having a cat D boat in the Channel. I'd go for an exemption.

 

[electrosys]

.

Additional information against the 1991 bill of sale which may alter replies, the yacht was given as in European waters, no proof, but the bill of sale addresses show both individuals resideing in Australia but the buyer, the guy we brought the boat off is a UK citizen working in Australia at the time.

That is important information. Where the boat physically is or was located, isn't relevant - it's where the owners were resident on the important dates.

For example - a boat may be physically located within EU waters, with an EU owner. If the boat is then sold to someone resident in a non-EU country, and subsequently re-sold to a EU resident (even if this is the original owner buying it back), the boat is considered to be an import and all the rules and regs, RCD and VAT, apply. Even though during all of these transactions the boat may never have left it's moorings ...

Yes - I know it's crazy ...

 

[Tranona]

That is important information. Where the boat physically is or was located, isn't relevant - it's where the owners were resident on the important dates.

For example - a boat may be physically located within EU waters, with an EU owner. If the boat is then sold to someone resident in a non-EU country, and subsequently re-sold to a EU resident (even if this is the original owner buying it back), the boat is considered to be an import and all the rules and regs, RCD and VAT, apply. Even though during all of these transactions the boat may never have left it's moorings ...

Yes - I know it's crazy ...

That is not strictly correct. VAT and RCD are not connected in any way. You are correct in that VAT is determined by the nature of the transaction so the location and residence of the buyer and seller can be relevant. RCD is solely based on when the boat is/was placed on the market. Boats built in the EEA before 1998 are exempt even if they have never been kept in the EEA. Boats built outside the EEA are subject to RCD if imported after 1998. If they were in the EEA before that date they are exempt.

The "problem" for the OP is whether his evidence of its status in 1998 is strong enough for it to be considered exempt.

 

[alan_d]

Since no-one with power to intervene is likely to know or care about the RCD status of this vessel, I would suggest that you merely assert confidently that it is exempt. (You could even do this in writing.)

 

[sandeel]

go with Searush he is usually right IMHO

 

[penfold]

Since no-one with power to intervene is likely to know or care about the RCD status of this vessel, I would suggest that you merely assert confidently that it is exempt. (You could even do this in writing.)

given the propensity for boatyards to go mammarys skywards on a regular basis, there are an infinite number of defunct firms from which to pick to generate a fraudulent receipt for boat storage or repair dated prior to 1998; I think there's more chance of such a delinquent boatowner winning the lottery without buying a ticket than getting fined for CE non-compliance offences.

 

[Blue Moon]

RCD

Hello all,

I own an American registered boat I want to import into the EU. She was build by American Marine, now Grand Banks, in the original shipyard in Kowloon, Hong Kong in 1967. I understand any boat that had been in the European Economic Area before the implementation of the RCD in 1994, it's exempt of the CE marking. Hong Kong was a British Colony until 1997 and so I also understand that my boat, being built in a British territory, doesn't need to be CE marked.

Can any kind and knowledgable reader confirm this?

Thanks a lot!

 

[Bilgediver]

Hello all,

I own an American registered boat I want to import into the EU. She was build by American Marine, now Grand Banks, in the original shipyard in Kowloon, Hong Kong in 1967. I understand any boat that had been in the European Economic Area before the implementation of the RCD in 1994, it's exempt of the CE marking. Hong Kong was a British Colony until 1997 and so I also understand that my boat, being built in a British territory, doesn't need to be CE marked.

Can any kind and knowledgable reader confirm this?

Thanks a lot!

One fell says 1994........another says 1996.......Oh well lets settle for 1998.



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