Recovering the Anchor - at the Chain/Rode Splice

[Slowboat35]

My system uses two chain hooks with short lengths of rope attached. One holds the chain while the rode is removed from the drum, the other hauls it in another metre or so using the drum until there is enough chain to engage over the gipsy.
It isn't exactly elegant. Is there a neater way?

 

[lustyd]

Yes, on my 20 footer I just pulled the lot in by hand. It was very neat but is harder on my 36 footer (not impossible, but risky). If you have a 60 footer then your method is probably among the best I'd have thought, aside from full chain.

 

[jdc]

It is possible to construct a chain to rope splice which is gripped by the same gypsy, so there is no hiatus: the combination passes through smoothly.

You need 3 strand not 8-plait, and to do the splice rather differently (passing only two strands through the chain), but it's worth it (or I think so anyway).

 

[thinwater]

It is possible to construct a chain to rope splice which is gripped by the same gypsy, so there is no hiatus: the combination passes through smoothly.

You need 3 strand not 8-plait, and to do the splice rather differently (passing only two strands through the chain), but it's worth it (or I think so anyway).

That only works with a combination gypsy. Not all will grip either rope or chain and have separate drums. The rope drum is BETTER on rope than a combination gypsy.

 

[lustyd]

It is possible to construct a chain to rope splice which is gripped by the same gypsy, so there is no hiatus: the combination passes through smoothly.

You need 3 strand not 8-plait, and to do the splice rather differently (passing only two strands through the chain), but it's worth it (or I think so anyway).

8 plait can manage a back splice or long splice, both go through a gypsy in theory. Usually the long splice is too stiff, as it is with 3 strand.

 

[LadyInBed]

My old SL Seawolf gipsy grips a rope rode which is then freed from the gipsy by the 'chain stripper'.
Doesn't your gipsy grip rope?
Edit - beaten by faster typers!

 

[vyv_cox]

The manual for my Maxwell windlass says its gypsy will accommodate chain, rope and a splice. I cannot confirm as I have all chain.

 

[lustyd]

My old SL Seawolf gipsy grips a rope rode which is then freed from the gipsy by the 'chain stripper'.
Doesn't your gipsy grip rope?
Edit - beaten by faster typers!

Mine doesn’t grip rope, but the old 3 strand was slimy and the new 8 plait is extremely soft and I expect it to improve as it hardens up with salt. That said I’ve only needed the rope once in Jersey so maybe it won’t ?

 

[wiggy]

My lewmar windlass works well with octoplait and the long splice that joins it to the chain. The long slice is tapered and is very easy to do yourself.

 

[thinwater]

My system uses two chain hooks with short lengths of rope attached. One holds the chain while the rode is removed from the drum, the other hauls it in another metre or so using the drum until there is enough chain to engage over the gipsy.
It isn't exactly elegant. Is there a neater way?

To answer the OP's question, that is one way. Another method includes have a chain pawl on the deck, which eliminates one of the lines.

 

[Slowboat35]

Yes, it's all very well doing it manually with 30m of 6mm chain but I have 60m of 10mm and when that's deployed any depth and rode required too Charles Atlas himself needs help to recover the tackle.

My lewmar windlass works well with octoplait and the long splice that joins it to the chain. The long slice is tapered and is very easy to do yourself.

Are you saying you only use the chain-gipsy to recover the entire rode, octoplait, chain and all? Hauling octoplait (or three-strand) up with the chain gipsy? That sounds like butchery to me.
Am I wrong?

Thinwater. I see you. Good point and thanks.

 

[Neeves]

My system uses two chain hooks with short lengths of rope attached. One holds the chain while the rode is removed from the drum, the other hauls it in another metre or so using the drum until there is enough chain to engage over the gipsy.
It isn't exactly elegant. Is there a neater way?

I think you will help yourself in getting an answer, and us in giving you the answer, but why don't you take a picture of your splice and the geographic location of the windlass to bow roller etc (ie how much room do you have). You have a cross section of answers - none of which might be the best option - help us to help you.

You don't need a fancy chain lock, you can make one yourself, been there, done that (but easier if you illustrate what you have). The ideal will work, be cheap and easy to instal/operate

If you have a phone, you have a camera - use it!

Our windlass is like Vyv's (Maxwell) - it has a gypsy specially designed to take a rope/chain splice - and like Vyv we use all chain. If you use all chain - you would not use the capstan for the rode at all.

This is our windlass assembled and before installation - it does not look quite so bright and shiny now.



And a bit of detail on the gypsy. You can see the pockets for the links and the teeth that grip the rope (if you have a mixed rode).



I really don't understand why you have not told us what sort of windlass you use (and as you are going to post - take a picture of the gypsy). Most modern installations will have a combination gypsy, chain and chain/rope. Often the manufacturer will specify the size of rope needed to 'fit' their gypsy and if you use rope that is too thin the gypsy will not grip the thinner rope and if too thick will not fit either. A simple search will provide you with the spec of your windlass, its gypsy and whether it will accept a mixed rode and what size of cordage matches.

I know many windlass can opt a capstan, we rejected the idea as we have enough winches (2 on the mast) and we have a combination gypsy. Our windlass is below deck and having an, unnecessary, capstan introduces a trip hazard to a 'clean' deck. But the capstan is not only there for the windlass it can be used (for example) to raise sails - it offers you a way to apply power to your halyards - it may be installed but was a actually never intended to be used with the rode (and sounds as if using it for the rode lacks logic with your installation - and maybe your rope portion of the rode is simply too big....???).

Jonathan

 

[Roberto]

Attach/splice the end of the rope not to the last link of the chain but say 50-70cm from the chain end: that will leave a free length of chain you can put on the gypsy while he rope is still under tension.

 

[Tranona]

Yes, it's all very well doing it manually with 30m of 6mm chain but I have 60m of 10mm and when that's deployed any depth and rode required too Charles Atlas himself needs help to recover the tackle.


Are you saying you only use the chain-gipsy to recover the entire rode, octoplait, chain and all? Hauling octoplait (or three-strand) up with the chain gipsy? That sounds like butchery to me.
Am I wrong?

This raises 2 questions. First why 10mm chain? and second how often do you actually deploy all 60m and need to use the rope?

Almost all windlasses now have chain/rope gypsies although they vary in effectiveness, not necessarily gripping the rope but dealing with the rope after it leaves the gypsy and managing the transition from rope to chain.

Agree with Neeves, more details of boat and anchoring set up would help understand problem and suggest solutions.

 

[Mudisox]

I quite often use mine as a Committee boat with a Lofrans Cayman winch, regularly needing all my 70m of 10mm chain and some of my 120m of Octoplait.
I redo the long splice every year and either end for end or cut the old splice end off the chain to resplice with at least 10 tucks.
Regularly anchoring in 20-25+ m of water and a couple of times in 78m the other side of the Hurd Deep when it needed nearly all of it.
The join goes through the gypsy, ok although I slow to stop both in and out just before the join, and have not had a problem with either losing the 'pull' on the rode or it jumping out.
I do run the engine to ensure amps to the winch and often engage ahead, sometimes with utilising the autopilot if I am up the front.
I use the capstan side for many uses, and it has saved my back on many a time!!

 

[wiggy]

Yes, it's all very well doing it manually with 30m of 6mm chain but I have 60m of 10mm and when that's deployed any depth and rode required too Charles Atlas himself needs help to recover the tackle.


Are you saying you only use the chain-gipsy to recover the entire rode, octoplait, chain and all? Hauling octoplait (or three-strand) up with the chain gipsy? That sounds like butchery to me.
Am I wrong?

Thinwater. I see you. Good point and thanks.

The gipsy is design for a mixed rode and yes it copes with octoplait perfectly well, causes no damage as far as I can see.

 

[simonfraser]

i have 8m of chain and the rest 3 core
depends upon the gypsy, my gypsy, lewmar, was said to be ok for octoplait, which jammed
one type of three core was too stiff and jammed in the exit hole of the lewmar system
after that mess i bought a 10m section of another 3 core that works a treat
sometimes jams when the chain enters the gypsy, in / out jiggle sorts that

3 core vid
octoplait vid

 

[thinwater]

i have 8m of chain and the rest 3 core
depends upon the gypsy, my gypsy, lewmar, was said to be ok for octoplait, which jammed
one type of three core was too stiff and jammed in the exit hole of the lewmar system
after that mess i bought a 10m section of another 3 core that works a treat
sometimes jams when the chain enters the gypsy, in / out jiggle sorts that

3 core vid
octoplait vid

Three strand here.

Try an irony splice; a bit more difficult to make, but far smoother to run.

Irony Splice

 

[Slowboat35]

Thanks to those with the helpful answers. I like the metre of loose chain before the splice.

I have 10mm chain because that's what's required for a ten ton boat (!) and I carry the length because 1) that is how the boat came equipped - 60m seems little enough to me btw - and 2) because anchoring in deeper water - say up to 20m requires all that and then some. Surprised the question even needs to be asked!
Oddly enough I do have a phone and believe it or not when I looked it had a camera too... amazing! But would you like to volunteer to take it down to the boat which is miles away to take the pics you want? Isn't the general configuration of windlass and bow roller pretty clear to most?

My previous boat had a Lewmar vertical rope/chain gipsy that simply choked on a loosely made and thus flexible octoplait splice.

Current Windlass is Lofrans Cayman horizontal.

Irony splice? I'll check it out! I don't much like the single turns around the last link though, looks prone to wear but maybe that's over-thinking it. Looks neat and slim for sure.

 

[Neeves]

Thanks to those with the helpful answers. I like the metre of loose chain before the splice.

I have 10mm chain because that's what's required for a ten ton boat (!) and I carry the length because 1) that is how the boat came equipped - 60m seems little enough to me btw - and 2) because anchoring in deeper water - say up to 20m requires all that and then some. Surprised the question even needs to be asked!
Oddly enough I do have a phone and believe it or not when I looked it had a camera too... amazing! But would you like to volunteer to take it down to the boat which is miles away to take the pics you want? Isn't the general configuration of windlass and bow roller pretty clear to most?

My previous boat had a Lewmar vertical rope/chain gipsy that simply choked on a loosely made and thus flexible octoplait splice.

Current Windlass is Lofrans Cayman horizontal.

Irony splice? I'll check it out! I don't much like the single turns around the last link though, looks prone to wear but maybe that's over-thinking it. Looks neat and slim for sure.

I suspect you are using 10mm chain - because that is the size for the gypsy. Many 10t yachts use 8mm chain and the last time I heard of a chain failing, over 10 years ago, it was because of a manufacturing problem - I have not heard of chain failure through being undersized, ever. We use a 6mm high tensile chain of and fully laden for a 3 month cruise we weigh in at 7t and have the windage of a Bav 45.

The 6mm replaces 8mm and is lighter, a breeze to retreive by hand, takes up less room, could use a smaller windlass demanding less power and has not failed (and its now 6 years old and counting). We carry 75m - and with decent snubbers would happily anchor in 20m of depth. Up in North Queensland where they have 10m tides - 20 m is not uncommon.

I am sure your chain is too heavy - maybe with the weight in the bow you are a slow boat

For the textile part of your rode to offer you any snubbing value - it will be totally inadequate - it will be too beefy. You unfortunately have the worst of both worlds - chain to heavy to retreive by hand, rope that is too inelastic to offer snubbing and difficult, but not impossible, to attach a snubber to rope and a rode, if you were here, you would not use in coral.

I only want more detail for your thread - to help you. I understand others have said the same. We don't need pics of your boat..... you do. Its like a picture of an irony splice - its worth 1,000 words.

Its your choice.

Windlass configurations vary with more or less space, ability to add a chain lock etc etc. Knowing what your windlass might be allows us to define what the gypsy might demand in terms of a splice to run freely - its your choice if you want to help us.... to help you.

You even appear aggrieved that we asked.

But don't worry many people don't give the detail, nor images, THEY need to solicit a detailed answer. Many of the answers they receive are this totally irrelevant. Sad really.

The more effort an OP invests in his opening post allows more detail in the replies. The more detail the OP invests the more likely the replies will be focussed and useful.

Jonathan