Recommendations for new headlining material?

[greenalien]

After 25 years, the foam backing of my boat's vinyl headlining has turned to powder, and so all the headlining needs to be replaced. Most of the headlining is fixed to ply panels, which I want to re-use. Before I buy more foam-backed vinyl, is there any other headlining material that will look as good, be light coloured and easy to clean, provide a little resilient padding, and not disintegrate in the future? (more cost-effective would also be good...)
Re-using the old vinyl with new foam isn't an option, it would look awful, rigid PVC planking and carpet have also been ruled out.
Any advice welcome. TIA.

 

[GrahamM376]

Our aft cabin linings are getting towards time expired and I've sometimes wondered about using van lining material, available in various colours and looks much easier to apply than vinyl. Remember seeing a new boat lined with it some years ago, maybe a Parker?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3z8zrtaUEI

 

[coopec]

I'm happy with my "van lining material": easy to install. This matter was covered in a thread a few weeks ago.
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?390046-Headlining-again&highlight=headliner

View attachment 41254 View attachment 41255

Here is a video clip of how to do it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHLq6FxQiI0

 

[VicS]

My preference is for the smooth easily cleaned surface of foam backed vinyl.

it can be glued to ply panels using a water resistant, and water based, PVA wood glue although a solvent based contact adhesive is needed for any glued to the GRP.

Various carpet linings available from cheap carpet from a carpet shop to the self adhesive soft pile material from places like Hawke House.

See Hawke House also for adhesives, accessories and advice

http://www.hawkehouse.co.uk/

 

[coopec]

VicS

I have not used foam backed vinyl and I doubt that I ever will after reading many threads in this and other forums. Maybe there are "good" and "bad" types of foam backed vinyl? The common complaint is that the foam turns to dust. Have they improved the product over the years?

Foam Backed Headlining-Worrying? [Archive] - Yachting and Boating ...
www.ybw.com › ... › Forum › Yachting Monthly's Scuttlebutt‎
Feb 17, 2013 - 21 posts - ‎17 authors
Has your boat got decorative foam-backed vinyl stuck on the deckheads and ... Like everyone else, I too have foam backed headlining. .... yourself in a situation where you are breathing in any heavy dust for any length of time.
Adhesive for headlining 10 posts 16 Sep 2013
Tools for headlining removal 13 posts 4 Nov 2012
Headlining material 15 posts 17 Feb 2011
Headlining 15 posts 3 May 2010

Foam backed Vinyl - Warning! - Yachting and Boating World
www.ybw.com › ... › Forum › Practical Boat Owner's Reader to Reader‎
Jun 16, 2002 - 3 posts - ‎2 authors
The Pollyeuathane foam at the back of the vinyl decomposes and breaks into a fine dust which causes allergic reactions which can be acute.

If the following post is true I find it particularly worrying.

"Posted on another sailing forum-cause for concern or over-hyped? Any chemists or medics on here care to comment with some technically sound thoughts.

Sir
Does your boat have any foam insulation? Has your boat got decorative foam-backed vinyl stuck on the deckheads and bulkheads, two-part foam, or sprayed foam?
The moment this foam starts to powder you are in danger of killing yourself or your crew. The foam in question is a polyurethane foam; it is the only foam that powders. It is broken down into a fine powder through heat and moisture, just what boats in the tropics encounter. It is only a matter of time before this happens.
This powder is highly toxic, as are urethane paints. The chemicals used to make urethane products are:
À Toluene-2,4-Diisocyanate
À Toluene-2,6-Diisocyanate
À Methyl Isocyanate (responsible for the Bohpal disaster, used for pesticides)
À Hexamethylene Diisocyanat..............................................

Read the full thread

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?349900-Foam-Backed-Headlining-Worrying

 

[The Dogs Pollacks Brother]

We are using this at the moment.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Anthracite-...d=1396679918&sr=1-19&keywords=acoustic+carpet

Very easy to fix, very forgiving, comes in a few colors and a good price. Myself and coopec discussed this a few weeks back.

 

[greenalien]

Thanks for the suggestions. The van headlining seems to be either foam or felt backed - I wouldn't be happy about using felt onboard, too much likelihood of it getting wet and not drying out. I think I'll probably just use foam-backed vinyl again and hope it lasts another 25 years - by that time, I'll either not be around any more, or I'll be too old to care!

 

[GrahamM376]

I'm happy with my "van lining material": easy to install. This matter was covered in a thread a few weeks ago.

Thanks for that, looks like you've done an excellent job. Don't know how I missed the earlier thread. Pretty certain I'll use it in the fore and aft cabins next winter refit but not sure about the main saloon, particularly above the galley as vinyl wipes clean easily whereas I assume this won't?

 

[Rigger Mortice]

VicS

I have not used foam backed vinyl and I doubt that I ever will after reading many threads in this and other forums. Maybe there are "good" and "bad" types of foam backed vinyl? The common complaint is that the foam turns to dust. Have they improved the product over the years?

Foam Backed Headlining-Worrying? [Archive] - Yachting and Boating ...
www.ybw.com › ... › Forum › Yachting Monthly's Scuttlebutt‎
Feb 17, 2013 - 21 posts - ‎17 authors
Has your boat got decorative foam-backed vinyl stuck on the deckheads and ... Like everyone else, I too have foam backed headlining. .... yourself in a situation where you are breathing in any heavy dust for any length of time.
Adhesive for headlining 10 posts 16 Sep 2013
Tools for headlining removal 13 posts 4 Nov 2012
Headlining material 15 posts 17 Feb 2011
Headlining 15 posts 3 May 2010

Foam backed Vinyl - Warning! - Yachting and Boating World
www.ybw.com › ... › Forum › Practical Boat Owner's Reader to Reader‎
Jun 16, 2002 - 3 posts - ‎2 authors
The Pollyeuathane foam at the back of the vinyl decomposes and breaks into a fine dust which causes allergic reactions which can be acute.

If the following post is true I find it particularly worrying.

"Posted on another sailing forum-cause for concern or over-hyped? Any chemists or medics on here care to comment with some technically sound thoughts.

Sir
Does your boat have any foam insulation? Has your boat got decorative foam-backed vinyl stuck on the deckheads and bulkheads, two-part foam, or sprayed foam?
The moment this foam starts to powder you are in danger of killing yourself or your crew. The foam in question is a polyurethane foam; it is the only foam that powders. It is broken down into a fine powder through heat and moisture, just what boats in the tropics encounter. It is only a matter of time before this happens.
This powder is highly toxic, as are urethane paints. The chemicals used to make urethane products are:
À Toluene-2,4-Diisocyanate
À Toluene-2,6-Diisocyanate
À Methyl Isocyanate (responsible for the Bohpal disaster, used for pesticides)
À Hexamethylene Diisocyanat..............................................

Read the full thread

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?349900-Foam-Backed-Headlining-Worrying

That sounds like boll**** to me. Has anyone died as a result of exposure to ageing foam backed vinyl?

 

[coopec]

. Pretty certain I'll use it in the fore and aft cabins next winter refit but not sure about the main saloon, particularly above the galley as vinyl wipes clean easily whereas I assume this won't?

Graham, I have the "van lining material" in my main cabin (as well as the fore cabin) but have formica in the galley and on the "galley ceiling". If you contemplate formica use just remember it will not take a compound curve (it will only bend one way). There's all sorts of plastic trim that can cover a multitude of sins

View attachment 41318

 

[coopec]

That sounds like boll**** to me. Has anyone died as a result of exposure to ageing foam backed vinyl?

So, if no one has died it must be OK?:disgust:

Should We Phase Out PVC? - EBN: 3:1 - BuildingGreen.com
www.buildinggreen.com/auth/article.cfm/.../Should-We-Phase-Out-PVC/‎
Jan 1, 1994 - Vinyl chloride was not considered particularly hazardous until the early .... that specifically identified PVC combustion as the cause of death.

http://www.buildinggreen.com/auth/article.cfm/1994/1/1/Should-We-Phase-Out-PVC/

Dr. Kenneth Rosenman of Michigan State University authored a 1988 study that found a correlation between birth defects of the central nervous system and exposure to ambient levels of vinyl chloride in communities adjacent to PVC factories

 

[greenalien]

The toxic part of polyurethane is the di-isocyanates used to make it. The vapour from this permanently damages your breathing and mustn't be inhaled. However, once combined in the compound, it's safe - just like salt is made from sodium and chlorine - each unpleasant and dangerous on their own, but fine when combined.
However, once the polyurethane turns to dust, it would be wise not to inhale it, it's liable to be an irritant just because of its particle size, probably of more concern than any chemical toxicity.

 

[coopec]

. However, once combined in the compound, it's safe - just like salt is made from sodium and chlorine - each unpleasant and dangerous on their own, but fine when combined.

I haven't checked to see how credible the researchers are but I worry when I read something like this.

Volatile Vinyl: The New Shower Curtain’s Chemical Smell
A new laboratory study commissioned by CHEJ found the familiar “new shower curtain smell” may be toxic to your health. The study found one PVC shower curtain can release as many as 108 volatile organic chemicals into the air. Some of these chemicals can cause developmental damage as well as damage to the liver and central nervous, respiratory, and reproductive systems.

 

[born2sail61]

Hadn't heard about the alleged toxicity of the foam dust until now. I have copd and have recently removed all my foam backed vinyl headlinings on a 51 year old boat.no noticeable ill effects at all.

 

[charles_reed]

Hadn't heard about the alleged toxicity of the foam dust until now. I have copd and have recently removed all my foam backed vinyl headlinings on a 51 year old boat.no noticeable ill effects at all.

Ah! but how do you know you won't get dementia earlier than otherwise? Still you've done it now. ;-)

There is at least one documented case of a crew becoming so ill that they had to be taken off a catamaran, due to vinyl dust - from memory in Australian waters, so one of our mates down under can find out.

 

[coopec]

born2sail

That's good that you have "no noticeable ill effects" at all but that doesn't mean it hasn't done damage.

Have a look at this and scientists don't know why it it happening. Apparently it only affects Western Men. (For the record I have no medical training at all)

BioNews - French sperm counts drop by a third over 17 years
www.bionews.org.uk/page_224218.asp‎
Dec 10, 2012 - Between 1989 and 2005 the sperm count of French men dropped by a ... Studies show alarming sperm count falls, but some distrust the figures.


Environmental causes

Overexposure to certain environmental elements can affect sperm production or function. Specific causes include:

Industrial chemicals. Extended exposure to benzenes, toluene, xylene, herbicides, pesticides, organic solvents, painting materials and lead may contribute to low sperm counts.
Heavy metal exposure. Exposure to lead or other heavy metals also may cause infertility.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/low-sperm-count/basics/causes/con-20033441

ALSO

After a farmer sprays his crop with pesticides and it gives him no noticeable ill effects is that alright?

New Connection Links Parkinson's Disease with Pesticide Exposure
www.enn.com › Agriculture‎
Jan 4, 2013 - Parkinson's is a degenerative disorder of the central nervous system. ... disease occurs at high rates among farmers and in rural populations.

 

[born2sail61]

must already have mild dementia,just take a look at my latest project! As for sperm count,3 grown up kids already,bit beyond wanting any more. The grandchildren keep us busy enough! www.poormanssailing.wordpress.com

 

[Rigger Mortice]

born2sail

That's good that you have "no noticeable ill effects" at all but that doesn't mean it hasn't done damage.

Have a look at this and scientists don't know why it it happening. Apparently it only affects Western Men. (For the record I have no medical training at all)

BioNews - French sperm counts drop by a third over 17 years
www.bionews.org.uk/page_224218.asp‎
Dec 10, 2012 - Between 1989 and 2005 the sperm count of French men dropped by a ... Studies show alarming sperm count falls, but some distrust the figures.


Environmental causes

Overexposure to certain environmental elements can affect sperm production or function. Specific causes include:

Industrial chemicals. Extended exposure to benzenes, toluene, xylene, herbicides, pesticides, organic solvents, painting materials and lead may contribute to low sperm counts.
Heavy metal exposure. Exposure to lead or other heavy metals also may cause infertility.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/low-sperm-count/basics/causes/con-20033441

ALSO

After a farmer sprays his crop with pesticides and it gives him no noticeable ill effects is that alright?

New Connection Links Parkinson's Disease with Pesticide Exposure
www.enn.com › Agriculture‎
Jan 4, 2013 - Parkinson's is a degenerative disorder of the central nervous system. ... disease occurs at high rates among farmers and in rural populations.

That's all very well but those scare stories are irrelevant. We were talking about the foam backing on vinyl headlining being toxic (according to you) when they breakdown. It was that claim which I was questioning.

I'm not even convinced that the foam is polyurethane. It may be, but I usually associate polyurethane with rigid foams not the soft stuff used to back vinyl.

 

[coopec]

That's all very well but those scare stories are irrelevant. We were talking about the foam backing on vinyl headlining being toxic (according to you) when they breakdown. It was that claim which I was questioning.

I'm not even convinced that the foam is polyurethane . It may be, but I usually associate polyurethane with rigid foams not the soft stuff used to back vinyl.

Will exposure to vinyl chloride result in harmful health effects?

Vinyl chloride is very toxic. People should avoid contact with this chemical. The following health effects can occur after several years of exposure to vinyl chloride:

Damage to the nervous system
Changes in the immune system

Cancer: Exposure to vinyl chloride may increase a person's risk of developing cancer. Human and animal studies show higher rates of liver, lung and several other types of cancer.

Reproductive Effects: People exposed to levels of 1,000,000 ppb or more in air may have an increased risk of miscarriage and birth defects. Damage to male sperm-producing organs has occurred in laboratory animals.

Organ Systems: Being exposed to vinyl chloride can affect a person’s liver, kidney, lung, spleen, nervous system and blood.

Bone: Long-term exposure to high levels of vinyl chloride can result in a decrease in bone strength in fingers, arms, and joints.


What is Polyurethane Foam?

Polyurethane foam is the most common upholstery material used today. It is found in almost all mattresses, sofas, the seats in your car, spray foam insulation and more. This material is a petrochemical product. The main chemical ingredient is TDI (Toluene diisocyanate). This chemical makes up approximately two thirds of the weight of the finished foam.

2,4-Toluene diisocyanate | Technology Transfer Network Air Toxics ...
www.epa.gov › ... › Air Toxics Web site‎
2,4-Toluene diisocyanate is primarily used as a chemical intermediate in the production of polyurenthane products. 2,4-Toluene diisocyanate is extremely toxic ...

 

[greenalien]

While vinyl chloride is toxic, polyvinyl chloride (PVC) is safe - unless you burn it and inhale the fumes. However, PVC in its basic state is hard and inflexible, so it's commonly compounded with other chemicals (plasticisers) to make it soft and flexible. One group of these plasticisers - phthalates - can mimic female hormones, and are associated with reduced fertility in men. The problem with plasticisers is that they aren't chemically bonded to the PVC, and can leach out; they may also be released as a result of UV action, which is why some PVC covers become sticky over time.