Recommendations for a first sailing boat please.

[kdband]

Hello All.

I'm thinking about buying my first sailing boat but I'm not sure which makes/models I should be looking at.
I don't have a massive amount of experience, but I think it's time to practise what I've learnt rather than spend more money on training at the moment. I have my day skipper qualification and my two teenage boys have done their competent crew. My wife also has some experience from many years ago when we shared a sailing holiday in Brittany for nearly two weeks including crossing the channel from and back to Falmouth on a 36' boat, a friend of a friend was skippering at that time.

I'm not even sure I fully understand my own requirements, but here's how I'm thinking I will be using it, so hopefully we can work something out from this:-

1. I anticipate doing most of my sailing with my wife and 2 teenage lads.
   
2. Occasionally I'll be sailing short-handed or even single-handed, so it needs to be easy to handle.
   
3. We won't be racing, just using it for bimbling around on the water and possibly short cruises. We live near Chorley in Lancashire and anticipate keeping any boat on the coast somewhere between Southport and Lancaster but not sure yet whether a river mooring or a marina.
   
4. We'll probably be using it mainly at weekends or the odd longer break in summer, it needs to be big enough to accomodate all 4 of us. Occasionally we may want to bring a friend or two so if it will sleep 6 that would be better, though certainly not essential. We are used to camping so we're not expecting luxury accomodation and don't mind roughing it a little.
   
5. I can't imagine my wife will be happy using a bucket, or even a porta-potty in the main cabin, so any boat needs to have a separate heads compartment.
   
6. I'm thinking of something with a shallow draft, maybe a twin keel so we can dry out if needed without having to worry about leaning.
   
7. We are fortunate enough to have the space to keep a boat at home over winter, so if possible it would be nice to be able to bring it home on a trailer. (I appreciate this might clash with the requirement to sleep 6).
   
8. As always, this needs to be done on a budget but I'm not sure what is realistic, I'm thinking of somewhere upto £5k at the moment, but accept I may have to revise this if I don't find anything suitable.

If you need any more info, please ask and I'll try to answer. If you think my requirements are unrealistic, please let me know. But if you can make any recommendations to help me focus in on the right boats for me, that advise will be gratefully received.

Thanks

Kevin.

 

[Matt341]

A westerly Centaur tends to be a popular sailing boat, not sure about how many they sleep but I would guess about 5 max. I think they are all bilge keel and they have separate heads.

Not sure about taking it home for the winter though.

Its going to be difficult to get the accomodation and to be able to trailer the boat back to your house.

A friend recently sold his centaur for £7,000 but she had some minor osmosis.

Hope this helps
Ian.

 

[sarabande]

I think that Item 8 contains the big problem, though perhaps you might pick up a boat which requires quite a lot of work. The advantage of that is you know the boat inside out, and have confidence in the structure and systems.

You should be able to pick up something for around 5k, but unless it has got wheels on it and it made by Bailey, it won't sleep 6.

What sales sites have you looked through ? Does anything take your eye ? Ask about a specific one and ye shall receive lots of opinion.

 

[Tranona]

Welcome to the forum

As already mentioned too many conflicting requirements. Almost by definition anything suitable for regular trailing will be cramped for 4 full size people. Anything capable of spending more than the odd night on board will be too big for trailing. Trailing this size of boat is usually beyond a family car so you are into 4*4.

£5k is not a lot of money to spend, although there are many older boats in the under 22/23ft range that will provide good experience of sailing for your family, but more day sailing than cruising. There are so many different boats from scaled up dinghy types to scaled down cruisers, all of which have good points it is difficult to advise specific models. Suggest you look at boats for sale for example on Boats and Outboards to get an idea what £5k buys you and then go and look at a shortlist.

Happy hunting

 

[armchairsailor]

Given your level of experience (and assuming commensurate maintenance experience), spend £250 or so on a survey before putting your money down on anything - it could save you much more in the long run! This would be especially important if you want to keep on budget.

 

[kdband]

refined requirements

OK, forget accomodation for 6, lets stick with 4, if a particular boat happens to sleep 5+ then that's a bonus, but not a requirement. If friends are on-board then one or more family will have to stay at home. I have a feeling that my wife will be the first to volunteer for a quiet weekend at home with no kids or hubby to bother her.

The idea of trailering it home in winter is so that I can spend the weekends at home and still get any maintenance/improvements done. We already have a 4x4 (Honda CR-V Auto) , but I was hoping to get rid of that soon. I don't mind replacing it with another 4x4 as long as it's a little more economical.

I'm fairly good at DIY so the idea of buying a fixer-up doesn't put me off at all as long as I could have something in the water at some point next year.

If budget is unrealistic for my requirements, please suggest what I should be paying. I think I can convince wife we can part with £5k without too many arguments but definitely don't want to spend too much on a first boat.

 

[Tranona]

You can get a 20-23ft shallow draft (drop keel or twin keel) with 4 berths for under £5k - but as I said there is so much choice you have to look at what is available. It will certainly be old and will probably be outboard powered. The important thing is condition condition condition. Bits for an old boat costs just the same as a newer boat of the same size, so look for one that has a good engine and sails. Try to avoid too much work as it is seriously time consuming and always more expensive than you think. The key thing is to get lots of experience of using it for a couple of years as this will help you decide if you all like it.

On the towing side, once you get above 20ft the weight shoots up and you need much heavier gear to handle it.

Moving up in price does not necessarily widen your choice of type unless you use the extra to buy a bigger boat (which might break the towing constraint). It will perhaps allow you to buy a newer boat or better condition.

 

[TamarMike]

To keep within your budget you will probably have to look at boats of known but not well-known designs. The less common designs probably won't sail as fast as well known designs but do however make sure the manufacturer & designer was reputable. Look at sites such as Boats & Outboards, Boatshed, Appollo-duck etc. and consider those advertised up to £6-£7,000 as you will quite likely be able to argue the price down. Visit any advertised near you even if beyond your means to get a good comparison of varying conditions (some can be quite appalling) and designs.

 

[misterg]

OK, forget accomodation for 6, lets stick with 4...

A Newbridge Venturer answers most of your requirements - There are berths for 4, but don't bring much luggage! Separate heads compartment, and just about trailable - something like 1600kg with the trailer. (I think the CR-V towing capacity is restricted to 1600kg, depending on the model - which is the same as many saloon cars. Also CR-V doesn't have a low range on the gearbox, so not much better for launching than a big car. Other 4x4s - Nissan, Landrover, etc can tow 3000kg+ and have low ratio gears for launching / recovery).

You might be struggling to find one with a roadworthy trailer for £5k, but you might get a boat for that (maybe less if it needs work). A decent trailer can be expensive ~£1k second hand ?? Good idea to avoid winter storage charges, and to have the boat close to home which makes it a thousand times easier to work on and 'beautify'.

We trailed our Venturer home for the winter as you're suggesting, and it worked well. OK for 4 (or more) when sailing, but *very* cosy overnight if >2 adults, or 1 adult + 2 kids <10.

If you drop the 'trailable' requirement, I'm sure you could find a bigger boat (maybe tatty) for the money, but you're then into storage charges, etc. when it's ashore.

If budget is unrealistic for my requirements, please suggest what I should be paying. I think I can convince wife we can part with £5k without too many arguments but definitely don't want to spend too much on a first boat.

Your budget is what it is. Whatever your budget is, you will be able to find boats which are nicer / better, but more expensive. You need to allow something in your budget for personal gear and equipment - maybe £1k, depending on how much you have already. For example:

4 x Lifejackets - £200
Flares - £70
2 sets of cheap oilies - £150 ??
Hand Held VHF - £60
Survey - £300 ??
Mooring warps - £100?
Fenders - £50
Fire extinguishers, etc. - £50

That must come close to £1000 and it's not a comprehensive list.

Preston Marina used to list a lot of reasonably priced boats, but I think you're more likely to find your boat by asking around the sailing clubs (there must be some) on the rivers up there than through a brokerage. FWIW be careful of ex lakes boats as the ones I looked at tended to be very poorly maintained, and would need a lot of work (=money) to get them seaworthy.

0.02p

Andy

p.s. Have a look at Anderson 22 as well.

Maybe some useful background information here:Archived boat data

 

[Babylon]

Try yachtsnet.co.uk for your research

Hi Kevin

Although not totally comprehensive, a good site (especially the 'archive' section) for detailed writeups, pictures and guide prices for a wide range of yachts is:

http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk

This should help you build up a broader picture of what's generally available and for how much.

Babs

PS Just noticed the link in MisterG's post above - same site.

 

[misterg]

....Not paying sufficient attention to my betters!

You must be really, really, really bad!

Andy

 

[Lakesailor]

Also CR-V doesn't have a low range on the gearbox, so not much better for launching than a big car.

FWIW be careful of ex lakes boats as the ones I looked at tended to be very poorly maintained, and would need a lot of work (=money) to get them seaworthy.

Whilst I agree with most of what you say, the OP's CRV is an auto, which overcomes the lack of low ratio. I had a CRV manual which was all but useless at recovering my clinker dinghy (250Kg) up a shale beach.

Lakes boats can be dog rough, but there are some very well looked after small boats up here. The major drawback is that many are only equipped for lake-sailing, so the extras to buy for coastal work will greater even than the list you suggest.

Has the OP thought about a boat on the lakes? It would cost about £800 Pa for a mooring for a 23/25 ft boat.

 

[Vid]

I've been through a similar process myself recently and think you have two choices for this size/price point:

a) Decent sailing boats but small-scale accomodation - often based on dinghy-type hulls
b) Roomier but less satisfying to sail - floating caravans dare I say?

I went with choice a) as I'm mainly day-sailing and bought an Achilles 24 but also considered Hunter Medina, Hunter Sonata and Anderson 22 and would have been happy with any. I also looked at a Trident 24 which was quite roomy down below.

I'm delighted with the Achilles - a lovely boat to sail, and comfortable enough, but no standing headroom.

 

[Lee_Shaw]

Trapper TS240 springs to mind.

 

[blackbeard]

I think the budget of £5k says it all really. Not so much as a limitation on purchase price but for the implication in running costs. Some of us (not me) will be spending nearly £5k just on mooring fees (though you don't really need a pontoon marina mooring, especially if you like exciting wet trips in a small dinghy). You can spend a couple of k just on a decent trailer.
Whatever, don't buy a boat in poor condition because it's cheap. You will finish up spending more in the long run. Check the price of sails, engine spares etc.
There are three possible ways to go. One is a good second-hand dinghy or dayboat, great fun and very instructive, and easy to tow and launch. Make sure you have practical experience of righting a capsize unless you have a ballasted dayboat.
Or you could find a charter company which is happy with your Day Skipper qualification, and charter. Maintenance is then someone else's problem. If you can only find a couple of weeks per year this will be cheaper than owning.
Finally you could join a club which owns and operates its own boats. This is likely to cost around £30/person/day plus club subscription. You will probably find yourself part of a crew with a very experienced skipper. If you like boat maintenance a warm welcome is guaranteed.
Whatever you decide, enjoy your sailing.

 

[Skylark]

There is some very good advice in this thread but ultimately only you can make the decision. Without meaning to come across as pompous and arogant, £5k is not a lot of money for a boat to satisfy family requirements. I suspect that the obvious pleasure of sailing as a family will be directly linked to your purchase.

I wouldn't get too hung up on a specific type of boat. Look around in general to see what you can get for your money and how closely it matches your aspirations. As others have said, it's better to buy something in good condition rather than be duped into buying a "bargain".

By definition, a boat is a bit of a money pit and they only become good value if you get good use out of them. It still think it wise to seek the opinion of SWMBO before you commit!

What ever you decide, I'm sure you will enjoy your family recreation and, just like most all of us, become adicted.

 

[scruff]

As other's have mentioned, you may find it a little hard to get 6 berths down below, plus be trailerable and under £5k.

however there are a plethora of smaller 22/24ft 1970's boats about that would sleep four, if a little cramped.

however, you mentioned that you have no problem with camping and a possible solution may be get a smaller boat, equip with boom tent to cover the cockpit and let the lads sleep out in the cockpit.

This has the second advantage of expanding your livig space when it is wet during our lovely summers....

you and your other half have a little more privacy and there may be a little more space to take a long a friend for a weekend or so...

just my 2p's worth...

 

[JimC]

The area you plan to base your boat (Lancashire coast) consists of shoals and sandbanks intersected by the wide shoal estuaries of the rivers Lune, Wyre and Ribble. The tidal range is 10 metres at springs. The only harbour with 24 hour access is Heysham, which doesn't encourage yachts. Fleetwood has a dredged channel to the Ro-Ro berth but everywhere else dries out, so the first requirement for your boat is that she can take the ground. In a cruising yacht this requirement is best met by having twin keels , which the vast majority of the local boats do.

Some boats I would be looking at are the twin-keeled versions of The Leisure 23, Westerly Pageant and Seamaster 23. No doubt there are many others but these are 3 types which I know have proved their suitability for the area. They meet your accommodation needs, would be just about trailable by specialised vehicle, and might just scrape inside your cost. I would visit the local clubs which include Morecambe, Glasson, Blackpool & Fleetwood and the Ribble Cruising Club at Lytham. Learn all you can from their members before making your decision. Here is a link to my own club at Glasson: http://www.glassonsc.org.uk/ this contains quite a bit of general information about the area.

Good luck in your search.

 

[Lakesailor]

Also boating club at Roa Island at Barrow.
I bought a bilge keel 18ft boat from Glasson a few years ago for £1200 on a trailer with a newish outboard. It was a little rough, but £5k would get a much more loved boat.

 

[gcostell]

Re JimC above, I have a Pageant and have slept five on board OK (2 adults, 3 kids). Would take two adults and 2 teens no problem. Separate heads. Cockpit is comfortable for four. Has 5ft 10in headroom. Decent galley, i.e. has sink and burner.

I sail it single handed most times!

Bilge keep, only draws 2ft 10in so can get to a lot of places.

Would recommend you look at these, you may need to go up a couple of grand though.