recommend me an old mans boat

As a former Bavaria 34 owner of 2001 vintage a few points to be aware of when looking generally
1 where is the main sheet accessed- Bav have on coach roof track so not easiest to release main sheet unless crew is alert - clearly its advantage though is no risk of crew strangulation etc but compared with other set ups
2 self tacking job on say a Hanse is great - many threads on the self tracker but for simplicity would support
3 main sail do you want in mast or stack pack against a marmite conversation but for older crew the in mast has appeal
4 check any vessel has shore power, heating ideally and hot shower fitted - The Bav extra lists was long so what now might be standard was often in those days an extra
5 check you walk round the wheel not having to hop up on cockpit seat
6 clearly ideally go for larger diesel ie 29hp as opposed to say 19hp
 
doug748 said:
I shall leave the others to tilt at windmills 😄.
It's nothing to do with the Forum fetish for "modern" boats, it's about sailing and handling.

The OP says he wants a steady boat , the antithesis of skegless hulls with spindly keels .
Many people may like boats that are 'fast, "responsive and sharp on the helm but my advice is that it would drive barca nova to take up fishing.

.
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You obviously did not read his requirements.

Low maintenance, post 2000 build no long distance cruising, club racing, wheel steering, lines led aft country cottage by the sea. None of your suggestions meet those requirements. Anybody who has owned and sailed the boats suggested will be able to assure him that there are no concerns about "stabillity and bounciness" in his type of use. This is the keel of the Bavaria 33 suggested. Hardly spindlyIMG_20150803_105232.jpg
 
Tranona said:
You obviously did not read his requirements.

Low maintenance, post 2000 build no long distance cruising, club racing, wheel steering, lines led aft country cottage by the sea. None of your suggestions meet those requirements. Anybody who has owned and sailed the boats suggested will be able to assure him that there are no concerns about "stabillity and bounciness" in his type of use. This is the keel of the Bavaria 33 suggested. Hardly spindlyView attachment 206902
Click to expand...
Aye, but that was you just sticking it back on for the umpteenth time 😎
 
Tranona said:
You obviously did not read his requirements.

Low maintenance, post 2000 build no long distance cruising, club racing, wheel steering, lines led aft country cottage by the sea. None of your suggestions meet those requirements. Anybody who has owned and sailed the boats suggested will be able to assure him that there are no concerns about "stabillity and bounciness" in his type of use. This is the keel of the Bavaria 33 suggested. Hardly spindlyView attachment 206902
Click to expand...

Can't take the credit for all of my suggestions; from the original post:

"Maybe a Vancouver 34?"

The rest were all late boats, available with steering wheels, and cockpit sail control. Their accommodation meets his requirements :
"6 Decent accommodation for overnight sleepovers..."

Don't misquote me, I have said nothing about: "stabiliy and bounciness "

.
 
westernman said:
Or get a boat which is small enough and light enough to make them unnecessary.
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Yeah, but an Anderson 22 doesn't work very well as a cottage by the sea, however much the long departed proponent claimed that one would (along with being the absolute bestest at everything else as well).
 
If looking something more sporty he could consider a Dehler -again a slightly marmite boat internally but a tad more racy .
Clearly a vancover34 and a Bav 34 are not in the same market segment IMHO but I suspect the Bav will be easier to motor astern into a berth and be more spacious below and sail more spiritly up to Force 4 . There might be a greater cache in owning a Vancouver though-it’s a bit like owning a Bowman. Our Bav did bounce in heavy waves compared to our current Moody but it was half the weight at4500kg so if bouncing is a concern maybe a heavier vessel might assist . I cannot comment on oceanis as I’ve only sailed a 321 in Turkey which was a basic charter type but quite spacious if a little underwhelming internally . If looking for another brand I would consider the Maxi or a Dufour though.
 
Once you have sailed with electric sheet winches at41ft they would be high up there on priorities but not really needed at34ft I suggest. Clearly there are risks in using electric winches though so to be treated with caution . I love our for controlling the mainsheet though as it great assists when up top alone
 
I think the bav 34 sails pretty well and feels a solid boat. However i wouldnt recommend one.

I suggest you ignore your requirements and what we say. Including me as I would just say buy a contessa 32, concerto will say get a fulmar and chiara tell you to get a foiling quatro maran. Skim through apolloduck, walk around a load of marinas and just go for what your heart tells you. A boat is not a rational purchase.
 
Just make sure the grid is still glued in place and don't touch the ground!!!! Bav 34 looks quite nice and has a ballast ratio of 31%
 
barca nova said:
I am looking for an old mans boat in the 30 to 34 ft range. Whilst I am fit, I am not as agile as I used to me and certainly no longer able to do major boat jobs as I once did. The boat , a sailing yacht, is likely to be used for a bit of geriatric friendly racing where finishing last doesnt matter and as a cottage down in the marina ie no long distance cruising.
For me an old mans boat means:
1/ low maintenance so likely post 2000
2/ all lines to cockpit
3/ steady not flighty
4/ reasonably wide side decks
5/ wheel steering if possible
6/ decent accommodation for over night sleep overs after club functions.

Wondering about the smaller Oceanis and Bav boats, but never had anything so lightweight before and worried about stability and bounciness. Maybe a Vancouver 34? Had to rule out the HR34 and 31 - teak decks- and there dont seem to be any solid build non teak deck boats post 2000
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This is the 4th or 5th time you have asked this question in one form or another. The answers are always the same. Asking here really does not help much as you get both cranks who suggest totally unsuitable boats as well as people who have long experience of owning different types of boats and everything in between.

With all due respect there is nothing "special" about your requirements - they are little different from those of the people who buy AWBs and 40 years ago bought Westerlys Sadlers, Moodys etc. Most people of our generation who buy AWBs previously owned those older boats and have had absolutely no problems with moving to newer types and in my experience most would never go back to older boats. They do have different sailing characteristics - it would be a surprise if they did not, but easy to adjust and then benefit from all the things that they are good at.

Any of the mainstream models of that size from Hanse, Beneteau, Jeanneau, Bavaria built since the mid 1990s will do the job, although they all have their detailed pros and cons. Mostly the newer the better as equipment levels continually improve but even earlier examples will likely have decent domestic gear, electrics electronics and deck gear including autopilot and anchor windlass. Not sure where you get the idea that modern boats are "lightweight". While some of the early (pre 2003 or so) smaller 30-34' were relatively light displacement, from the mid 2000s onwards displacements rose. Some examples. HR34, 5300kgs, Bavaria 33 5250kgs, Jeanneau 33i 4600kgs, Hanse 342 5100kgs, Beneteau34 5700kgs Westerly Fulmar 4500kgs. Yet another myth put about by ignorant people who have no experience of owning modern boats.

Remember buying a "new" boat at our time of life is a means to an end, not an end in itself. You have maybe 5 or so years of active sailing, just like me when I bought my second Bavaria so makes sense to buy the simplest easiest to use boat for your more limited horizons that won't make you a slave and be easy to sell when you decide to give up. There is no substitute for looking at as many boats as you can, particularly to identify the key aspects of easy handling and moving around on the boat as this in my experience is where there can be significant differences. Ideally you might try to have a go with some of the boats on offer. I took 3 sceptics out on my Bavaria, one bought exactly the same boat and the other 2 subsequently bought Hunter Legends, one smaller and one larger.

No time for procrastination. If you have the money, get around and look at what is on offer. Pretty sure you will find the "right" boat fairly quickly and at a good price so you can get sailing in it for as long as possible.
 
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stav said:
Just make sure the grid is still glued in place and don't touch the ground!!!! Bav 34 looks quite nice and has a ballast ratio of 31%
Click to expand...

I would agree that a good look at the grid, bilges and keel bolts is essential, as is a deflection test on any keel, including encapsulated keels. Delamination of the hull or grid around the keel, and delamination in the keel on encapsulated keels, can and does occur over time. When the bilges are permanently wet for decades, or if the boat has been grounded at some point in the past.

Tap the hull with a small hammer all around the keel and hull below the waterline. AWBs tend to be solid glass below the waterline and either closed cell foam or balsa (eek) core above the waterline. Delaminated GRP is audibly different to solid GRP.

... and not all AWBs are built the same. I personally would avoid a grid that is just glued in place. Bavaria, at least my two Bavs, have grids that are glued and laminated to the hull. Keel bolts are large and plentiful, and the bilge of my current 2008 Bavaria looks like this ....

1771940291998.png

This is normal for a well looked after 16 year old Bavaria (when I bought it) .... it still looks the same 2 years later. The floor can be easily lifted (screwed down) and there is nothing ostructing an inspection of the entire bilge or grid. There are 13 bolts holding a 3380 kg lead keel, which is also glued to the hull. I vacuum the fluff and crumbs out of the bilges a couple of times per year.

Spade rudders are also stronger than they appear ... and the reason so many charter boats get their rudders pulled over winter is to repair the damage inflicted by muppets grounding the rudders in stern-to mooring accidents. I have personally seen an Bav 50 stop dead when it's rudder hit the bottom in Sivota. Not only did most of the crew fall over, but the bow lifted out of the water far enough to see down the bow-thruster tunnel. It continued on it's charter the following day with a bit of GRP and gel-coat missing from the tip of the rudder.

Bavaria vs Tesla
 
Tranona said:
This is the 4th or 5th time you have asked this question in one form or another. The answers are always the same. Asking here really does not help much as you get both cranks who suggest totally unsuitable boats as well as people who have long experience of owning different types of boats and everything in between.

With all due respect there is nothing "special" about your requirements - they are little different from those of the people who buy AWBs and 40 years ago bought Westerlys Sadlers, Moodys etc. Most people of our generation who buy AWBs previously owned those older boats and have had absolutely no problems with moving to newer types and in my experience most would never go back to older boats. They do have different sailing characteristics - it would be a surprise if they did not, but easy to adjust and then benefit from all the things that they are good at.

Any of the mainstream models of that size from Hanse, Beneteau, Jeanneau, Bavaria built since the mid 1990s will do the job, although they all have their detailed pros and cons. Mostly the newer the better as equipment levels continually improve but even earlier examples will likely have decent domestic gear, electrics electronics and deck gear including autopilot and anchor windlass. Not sure where you get the idea that modern boats are "lightweight". While some of the early (pre 2003 or so) smaller 30-34' were relatively light displacement, from the mid 2000s onwards displacements rose. Some examples. HR34, 5300kgs, Bavaria 33 5250kgs, Jeanneau 33i 4600kgs, Hanse 342 5100kgs, Beneteau34 5700kgs Westerly Fulmar 4500kgs. Yet another myth put about by ignorant people who have no experience of owning modern boats.

Remember buying a "new" boat at our time of life is a means to an end, not an end in itself. You have maybe 5 or so years of active sailing, just like me when I bought my second Bavaria so makes sense to buy the simplest easiest to use boat for your more limited horizons that won't make you a slave and be easy to sell when you decide to give up. There is no substitute for looking at as many boats as you can, particularly to identify the key aspects of easy handling and moving around on the boat as this in my experience is where there can be significant differences. Ideally you might try to have a go with some of the boats on offer. I took 3 sceptics out on my Bavaria, one bought exactly the same boat and the other 2 subsequently bought Hunter Legends, one smaller and one larger.

No time for procrastination. If you have the money, get around and look at what is on offer. Pretty sure you will find the "right" boat fairly quickly and at a good price so you can get sailing in it for as long as possible.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that Tranona - you are talking a lot of sense. But build quality isnt just an issue of weight - the HR34 we looked at ( before abandoning because of the teak deck) hjas the hull laminated to the deck before furniture is taken in via the hatch. Most , maybe all, mass manufactured boats are fitted out and then the lid glued on. The result in some cases is leaks at the hull deck join as I have seen with other club members and experienced myself. Then there is the issue of internal finish. Saw a Bav from about 2000 and was quite impressed. Just viewed a Dufour from 2015 and its full of ply with the end grain covered by a thin and easily and already damaged damaged veneer. Mind you it was lovely in lots of other ways, with modern electronics but a saildrive :(

The current market is clearly quite difficult but just as you see when the housing market turns down, sellers arent reducing prices in response.

To answer some of the other posts:

guardrail gate - easy to add. Low topsides - yes please. I'm 1.7m tall so thats all the headroom and windage I want.

" The real question is, how much of your self-image is tied up in the boat you own? What I mean by that is, would you feel happier with a traditional style over a modern one? "
Always liked good quality stuff - Merc not Dacia, So there is a bit of pride of ownership but not enough to go out and buy a Swan. That said I have always gone on the basis that a good boat is one where you turn round to look back at it when leaving. And there are a lot of AWBs around!

One of the Victoria's, Vancouver, or Rustler 36. Bowman 40 if you are flush with cash though all are overkill unless they get at least some serious use.
Dont want anything as big as 36. Have looked carefully at a Vancouver 34 but its an old fashioned boat built for going long distances slowly. Pokey inside.

check you walk round the wheel not having to hop up on cockpit seat
Yes was surprised to find some small Bavs needing you to do just that. And whats more with winches by the wheel, easy for the helm but unuseable by crew

So thanks to all respondents. In a way I was checking to see if there were any alternative makes that I hadnt thought of, but you all seem to be saying much the same thing. So far we have viewed 8 boats from HR, Bav, Benny, Vancouver, Westerly and Dufour but not found anything that fits the bill and is in decent well looked after condition.

Interestingly, three brokers have said the same thing - avoid the BenJenBavs built post roughly 2010 because thats when they were cheapened and fitted with IKEA style internals. Agrees?
 
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