Recent Pan-Pan.

[rotrax]

Following from Robin's WAFI Parking thread on Saturday we heard a Pan-Pan in a popular South Coast Harbour.

The boat was a Cornish Shrimper and by the callers first class radio etiquette was certainly experienced at using VHF communications.

He reported a broken-IIRC-Port side shroud. He did not give a lat/long position, but I knew where he was, only a mile away as the crow flies, but three times that by water. He was concerned the mast might come down and requested urgent assistance and a tow back to his club, again very close to his position.

I mused what I might have done in his position.

I doubt I would have shouted for help untill I had tried using both the jib and staysail halyards to take the place of the broken shroud, winched up as tight as I could get them. With the mast-again IIRC a short stubby one-thus supported and the main down a short motor back to the club would, I suspect, have been without issue.

Happily for the caller a local rescue boat was within a few minutes away from his position and was there to sort him out.

What would you have done-Pan Pan or something else, in light winds and a sheltered Harbour?

Letters on the back of a five pound note to " Gongoozler of Gosport "................................

 

[Mark-1]

Maybe he was physically holding the mast up himself and didn't have spare hands to get to a halyard to rig it, but did have his handheld in his pocket. Or maybe he had already rigged a halyard but had no engine/oars/Yuloh. Maybe his solution was simply to drop the mast backwards (I bet it has a tabernacle) and that made motoring impossible for some reason.

Hard to guess what the situation was but he most likely *did* need help or he wouldn't have called for it.

 

[dom]

Following from Robin's WAFI Parking thread on Saturday we heard a Pan-Pan in a popular South Coast Harbour.

I mused what I might have done in his position.

Trouble with these kind of posts is that no matter how well intentioned, they leap right into a legal grey zone by identifying the vessel in distress; highly unlikely two of a kind suffered the same failure in same location on same day.

Aside from that, we are being asked to judge the merits of another sailor's distress call based on partial information at best. Doesn't feel right to me.

 

[bedouin]

It is possible that there was more to it than that - shrouds shouldn't break and it is a bit surprising he couldn't just motor himself.

Calling Pan Pan does not endanger anyone else nor seriously inconvenience anyone - I bet the local rescue service was delighted to have something to do.

 

[Uricanejack]

Have you read this months question of seamanship? quite a similar situation.
According to the YM master of seamanship. The call was premature. Broken shroud and a flat battery.

I standing around with a beer, criticizing someone else's docking. or listing to some else's mayday, or pan pan. Just part of the fun of sailing.
Is it life threatening maybe not? Still I'd have no problem going a bit out of my way to offer a helping hand. Better to help before it becomes a broken mast. landing on some poor sods head.

 

[Bajansailor]

Oh dear Rotrax. You were displaying Oneupmanship in the recent steel boat thread, and now you are doing the same again.
As Dom says, we are being asked to condemn somebody based on selective info that you have disclosed.
Not all of which is correct - for example, a Cornish Shrimper does not have a staysail. You are perhaps thinking of a Cape Cutter or a Cornish Crabber?
Pedantic I know, but shouldn't you at least do some proper research about a boat first before slagging it off?
https://www.cornishcrabbers.co.uk/shrimper-series/shrimper-19/

 

[rotrax]

Oh dear Rotrax. You were displaying Oneupmanship in the recent steel boat thread, and now you are doing the same again.
As Dom says, we are being asked to condemn somebody based on selective info that you have disclosed.
Not all of which is correct - for example, a Cornish Shrimper does not have a staysail. You are perhaps thinking of a Cape Cutter or a Cornish Crabber?
Pedantic I know, but shouldn't you at least do some proper research about a boat first before slagging it off?
https://www.cornishcrabbers.co.uk/shrimper-series/shrimper-19/

Not at all.

I am not familiar with a Shrimper's rig. I got it wrong. I have no idea how the mast is supported on a shrimper, or if it can easily be lowered.

Slagging the boat off? Where does THAT come from in my OP? They are fine vessels.

My quandry was, would I have asked for assistance within a short distance of where I wished to return to without making some attempt to secure the mast? I doubt it. Perhaps if securing the mast with a halyard did not work, or the engine would not work.

First Mate and I have carried out a couple of rescues of yachtsmen in trouble, the last taking a 36 footer alongside before it was blown into the wall of Queen Annes Battery Plymouth.

In that incident, the skipper-a Yachtmaster, better qualified than me-had an engine failure, the genoa was stuck, was 75 yds from the wall but had not made any attempt to drop his anchor. That baffled me, and when asked why he did not, he had no response.

No "one upmanship" implied or intended in my OP.

I am interested to know if the course of action I would have employed would have served others in that situation.

Despite what else you wrongly read into it.

 

[Mark-1]

Oh dear Rotrax. You were displaying Oneupmanship in the recent steel boat thread, and now you are doing the same again.

In that incident, the skipper-a Yachtmaster, better qualified than me-had an engine failure, the genoa was stuck, was 75 yds from the wall but had not made any attempt to drop his anchor. That baffled me, and when asked why he did not, he had no response.
.

Priceless.

 

[dom]

No "one upmanship" implied or intended in my OP.

In that case it might have been better to pose a purely hypothetical question, as opposed to opening with:

“Following from Robin's WAFI Parking thread on Saturday we heard a Pan-Pan in a popular South Coast Harbour.”​

 

[Topcat47]

WouldaCoudaShouda, who knows? I've made some pretty basic errors when tired and not necessarily emotional. 20.20 hindsight is a wonderful thing but in the main, no-one died. A result in my book! Good Call!

 

[JumbleDuck]

Not all of which is correct - for example, a Cornish Shrimper does not have a staysail. You are perhaps thinking of a Cape Cutter or a Cornish Crabber?
Pedantic I know, but shouldn't you at least do some proper research about a boat first before slagging it off?
https://www.cornishcrabbers.co.uk/shrimper-series/shrimper-19/

As far as I can see, all three Shrimpers current in production (the 17, 19 and 22) have staysails - ie they have triangular fore-and-aft sails set on stays.

 

[Mark-1]

they have triangular fore-and-aft sails set on stays.

That's not my definition of staysail. Be interesting to see what everyone else considers a staysail to be.

 

[Kukri]

That's not my definition of staysail. Be interesting to see what everyone else considers a staysail to be.

I'll rise to the bait: in the form of gaff cutter rig favoured in Britain for quite a while there are two headsails, and the outer one is set "flying" to a ring traveller on a retractable bowsprit so it has no stay; the sail set astern of it runs up the forestay and is therefore the staysail.

Oh, and a shroud is most unlikely to part but it may come undone at either end, typically the lower end if a clevis pin split pin drops out or if a bottlescrew hasn't been moused. DAMHIKT. When it happened to me, at 2.00 am in the Wallet, I instantly tacked, to get the load off, leaving her hove-to, then I lashed the tiller and put the shroud back - being now on the lee side there was enough slack to get the clevis pin back in. I didn't even wake the watch below.

Obviously I fail "Basic Yacht Maintenance" but do I pass the other questions?

 

[Vega1447]

I'll rise to the bait: in the form of gaff cutter rig favoured in Britain for quite a while there are two headsails, and the outer one is set "flying" to a ring traveller on a retractable bowsprit so it has no stay; the sail set astern of it runs up the forestay and is therefore the staysail.

Oh, and a shroud is most unlikely to part but it may come undone at either end, typically the lower end if a clevis pin split pin drops out or if a bottlescrew hasn't been moused. DAMHIKT. When it happened to me, at 2.00 am in the Wallet, I instantly tacked, to get the load off, leaving her hove-to, then I lashed the tiller and put the shroud back - being now on the lee side there was enough slack to get the clevis pin back in. I didn't even wake the watch below.

Obviously I fail "Basic Yacht Maintenance" but do I pass the other questions?

Yes.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I'll rise to the bait: in the form of gaff cutter rig favoured in Britain for quite a while there are two headsails, and the outer one is set "flying" to a ring traveller on a retractable bowsprit so it has no stay; the sail set astern of it runs up the forestay and is therefore the staysail.

Yes, but I'd say that it's a staysail because it's set on a stay, not because it's behind a sail which isn't.

 

[Triassic]

Following from Robin's WAFI Parking thread on Saturday we heard a Pan-Pan in a popular South Coast Harbour.

The boat was a Cornish Shrimper and by the callers first class radio etiquette was certainly experienced at using VHF communications.
.

Without being to much of a bore rotrax I'd be quite interested to hear your views on Section 48 of the 2006 Wireless Telegraphy Act?

 

[ShinyShoe]

He reported a broken-IIRC-Port side shroud.
He was concerned the mast might come down and requested urgent assistance and a tow back to his club, again very close to his position.

I mused what I might have done in his position.

I doubt I would have shouted for help untill I had tried using both the jib and staysail halyards to take the place of the broken shroud, winched up as tight as I could get them. With the mast-again IIRC a short stubby one-thus supported and the main down a short motor back to the club would, I suspect, have been without issue.

By definition - this is a Pan.
have a situation that is urgent but, for the time being at least, does not pose an immediate danger to anyone's life or to the vessel itself
Even if you are attempting a repair yourself, a Pan in this situation seems entirely appropriate. Imagine while attempting the repair the mast drops and hits him on the head. He is now critically injured, has dropped the radio and needs help but no-one knew he had an issue. Imagine the headlines ... "should have called for help earlier..."

PAN is sometimes (wrongly) claimed to stand for: "possible assistance needed" or "pay attention now" - while it doesn't - Both seem sensible definitions for this situation.

A simple call to the CG would achieve similar. BUT it might get overspoken by the 20 WAFis making their presence felt with obligatory radio checks. The fast craft nearby him may also have been creating a wake, the wake may be enough to change the loads on the mast to cause it to fall...

Happily for the caller a local rescue boat was within a few minutes away from his position and was there to sort him out.

Good chance he already knew that. If this was me and I knew the RIB was already on the water would I ask if they might at least come alongside while I tried to make a repair... darned sure I would! Yes I like to be self sufficient. Yes I'd prefer to avoid getting a team away from their jobs etc. But in that circumstance with the boat already nearby it would seem foolhardy to not let them help.

 

[rotrax]

Without being to much of a bore rotrax I'd be quite interested to hear your views on Section 48 of the 2006 Wireless Telegraphy Act?

As it was broadcast on channel 16 I suspect many others heard it.

By transmitting on 16 it was in the public domain.

 

[rotrax]

I'll rise to the bait: in the form of gaff cutter rig favoured in Britain for quite a while there are two headsails, and the outer one is set "flying" to a ring traveller on a retractable bowsprit so it has no stay; the sail set astern of it runs up the forestay and is therefore the staysail.

Oh, and a shroud is most unlikely to part but it may come undone at either end, typically the lower end if a clevis pin split pin drops out or if a bottlescrew hasn't been moused. DAMHIKT. When it happened to me, at 2.00 am in the Wallet, I instantly tacked, to get the load off, leaving her hove-to, then I lashed the tiller and put the shroud back - being now on the lee side there was enough slack to get the clevis pin back in. I didn't even wake the watch below.

Obviously I fail "Basic Yacht Maintenance" but do I pass the other questions?

Good move.

That is the sort of practical response I can relate to.

Thank you.

 

[dom]

As it was broadcast on channel 16 I suspect many others heard it.

By transmitting on 16 it was in the public domain.

Prob best to have a read of S48 as referenced by Triassic before posting more dets.