re:french boats...beneteaus etc

Funny thing is that....

......quite a lot of the French charter boats you saw were delivered across the pond in the first instance, though some are made in the USA I believe.

There are plenty such on the oceans, but for one report of a Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 40 see this website, owners 8000ml delivery trip of his new boat from La Rochelle home to S Africa.

http://jeanneau.tripod.com/id141.htm

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Re: Religion wars

"Roberto" statement reflects French point of view : For us boats évolution didn't stop in the seventies !

Thanks to my jobs I experienced most of Jenny & Benny range one day or another. (AWBs owners enjoy their boats in different ways and programmes).
For instance :
I crossed Atlantic twice, once delivering a Sun Charm 39 the other on an extensive cruise with my Gladiator. Despite the timing on the delivery trip both were pleasant voyages.
On the other hand, turning around Brittany (Raz de sein & Chenal du Four) could be a tricky passage !
IMHO, as long as you're ready in your head, an Atlantic crossing is not an achievement but a day sailing could be an ordeal in a tight corner.
AWBs have the ability to succeed and escaped both situations...

"Stingo" did the good choice, he set sail with his Océanis 390 despite "Lords of the Forum" detractors. Having met him in Camaret, I'm almost sure he'll circle Earth before others earn enough money to buy a so-called "proper boat".
And the most important : he'll enjoy a lot of Fun in the interval !

Having said so, I duck for cover !
(I worship AWBs but I welcome people from both churches for a pint ! I must say that there's nothing nicer than a classic to look at from the Seaview Pub).

<hr width=100% size=1>Brittany Yacht Assistance
 
Here we go again............its hardly that awbs can't cross the atlantic or any other ocean for that matter,it just that I certainly woulden't choose to be on one.
One can hardly compare the average French built family cruiser with a light carbon waterballasted racing machine crewed by 10 young fit sailors whose luggage and posessions can be fitted into their oilskin pocket. Incidentally its not long or fin keel,what about long fin and skeg hung rudder,best compromise configuration I think.
Samphire.

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hmm lot sof verrry intresting points...one important one was that buying a second hand boat has many advantages....hmmm so if i was to set off , in two years....with one or two others for a year maybe two...how big would i need to be comfortable?? prob 40ft?? how much would i need??? all these are maybes but every sailing trip i do i think it's a better and better idea

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Re: Unless

someones developed a boat that's deep keeled narrow haunched, has a small cockpit, cutter rig and a brass toilet pump, but when you get where your going to you press a button and it shapeshifts into a fat arsed, two aft cabin, two dunny sunbathing platform your really going to have to take your pick.

Provided your choice is well designed and manufactured and equiped for the trip. Provided you are familiar with what is required to keep your chosen boat safe.
Provided your determined enough to do the job. You'll be all right.

In my opinion most modern mass produced boats have less of the things that make distance sailing a pleasure. Sea berths, sea going gally, deep bilges, hand holds and anchor points etc. But these problems can be overcome or accepted.

I suspect that if you calculate your cruising time as harbour living v passage making. You could then choose the boat that suites using my previous proviso's.

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Starting from...

If I were thinking of doing something like that, I'd give serious consideration to starting out by buying a boat over there, maybe Florida. They're cheaper to buy in mainland USA, and kit for refitting costs less, they'd almost certainly be optimised for warm climate living, and the Caribbean would be more or less on the doorstep and not 20-something days sailing from the Azores.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.writeforweb.com/twister1>Let's Twist Again</A>
 
they are designed for charter sailing not ' bashing acrosss etc..'
but that does not mean they cannot do a crossing which is in essence 30 days at sea, much of it motoring
they spend one half a season being gently sailed around the carib
do one crossing and spend a season being mototred round the med
then cross back
my worry would be is the engine upto it

yip for a circum nav i would not want one
but these boats ARE charter boats that do the odd crossing not boats that cross the oceans of the world for a living

<hr width=100% size=1>My wife wanted tender treatment, so i stowed her whilst at sea
 
Bring back Fastnet!

(Great post, Roberto)

The fact is us fuddy-duddy long-keel types have to admit we are losing this religious war. Dropping a rudder or two half way across hardly matters to your AWB now we can all summon mid-Atlantic assistance at the touch of a button.

So a group of us congregate gloomily in one corner of the marina to grumble about the rapidly diminishing market value of our no longer fashionable heavyweights. A good old-fashioned Fastnet-style disaster on the ARC, with upturned AWB's scattered right across, would do wonders for their market value, that we are agreed.

Trouble is that in these days of over-regulation, it would probably result in a total ban on blue-water cruising.
 
Re: Funny thing is that....

In order to be offered for charter in the US (legally) the boat has to be built in the US. This includes Porta Rica, and US Virgins but not of course BVI. Since about 1986 all Beneteaus in the US have been built at their plant in the Carolinas, I suspect that it is this US law that had a lot to do with Beneteau opening this plant.

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You might try reading one of Lisa Copeland's (from Hill Head)books. She and her husband spent five years on a circumnav in a Beneteau First 38, they still have the boat and plan on going again. They are crazy about the boat.

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Why not look at the people who make a switch?

A friend (he wrote a couple of articles in PBO (but so far not about his falkland disaster) had a roberts 45 (I believe a little stronger than the AWB) and had lived at that time with wife for 22 years on the boat and circumnavigated and sailed extensively. He also did deliveries of french boat and commented "they are rubbish. once you are across they need extensive repairs".

Anyway, his 45 Roberts was rolled by a freak wave and I dont believe it was a matter of lack of capability or a question of equipment, but the chain plates were ripped out and the mast came down. Their small children about 1 and 3 years old were on board. There was not a stich of dry textiles on the boat, he said they were never near sinking, but they children would have frozen to death in a short time. He even doubted that he and his wife would have survived the cold.

The incident happened 50 miles of the falklands and they were rescued (due to a functioning eprib) 12 hours later.

The boat was shipped to the UK, repaired and sold. After this the decision was made to get a steel boat. A semi-complete houtbay 50 was bought for GBP 6000,-, made ready (I would not say completed) and they are on the water again.

My boat has been designed to handle the southern atlantic and antarctic waters.

Whether I can still make it at my age is another matter, but I amsure the boat could. with a safety factor of four, my hull can handle a crushing force of 450 tons, which I dont hink he AWB can possibly come near that figure.

It is true, not all of the good people here will ever go to the south atlantic, but the disaster of Cabo St.Lucia where 60 boats were wrecked, nobody expected this to happen either. Bernard Motessiers boat jashua had a few dents and was sold for restauration, but of some of the plastic boats the biggest pieces found afterwards were only one square meter in size. Thes lessons are too quickly forgotten or ignored.

But in the end, it is all our own choice. I have to live with rust and I HATE IT!

ongolo

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English sailors are always snotty about French boats. They are very seaworthy boats. There was an article in "Voile et Voiliers" magazine a while back about a French guy who sailed his Beneteau 411 around Cape Horn. There is another sailor currently sailing his Jeanneau 52 around Greenland (www.planet.fr), and reckons his boat is ideal for the purpose. I bet your skipper has not sailed in either of these waters...

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We can be snotty about French boat but from reading C S Forester he mentions that as far back as the late 1700's the Royal Navy loved capturing French Ships due to their superior sailing qualities. I know C S Forester based the Hornblower books on ships logs in Greenwich Maritime Museum but also appreciate C S Forester may not be as knowledgeable as others happy to defer to better experts while sailing my French Dufour!!

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If your Dufour is made of oak I claim my prize money, which is what the Jack Tars were after. By the way I don't think Mr Forrester would have got much out of RN ships' logs apart from their position and a record of formal events. More likely Forrester simply read the Navy Chronicle, which you can too.

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Well I've not read the Hornblower books, but SailFree is correct - at least for the Napoleonic period. In Dudley Pope's book "Life in Nelson's Navy" he states;

"The British ships were well built and strong and their men fought bravely, but one skill eluded the Navy Board - the ability to design fast and weatherly ships. Most of the best ships in the Royal Navy in this war were those captured from the French or Spanish, or copied from them".

Whether that's still true today of course is a debate that will no doubt continue......

<hr width=100% size=1>There are 10 kinds of people, those who understand binary and those who don't.
 
What is suitable ?

Really when it comes down to it - a yacht is a yacht and not really intended for ocean legs and serious heavy weather stuff like ships. Remember even ships go down in bad weather - NOT only old ships. Yeh - I know I'm going to take stick for this, but even a 50ft boat is tiny compared to some waves etc. encountered.

It is agreed that most boats have RCD / CE marking and grading - but how many are going to brave an atlantic storm ? on their plastic wonder ?

I am always amazed at the exploits of some in their boats and I remember the Plaque my Father had hung in his boat .... he used to keep it and hang in each boat he had :

"Lord the Sea is so big and My Boat is so small"

Just about says it all for me !!

It must also be remembered that many boats are built to a market ...... bit like houses and cars really ..... that market dictating scantlings, weight, comfort etc. etc. Don't believe me ? Then why are many blue-water boats heavier build than the average marina based job ... and I am not just talking French built ..... look at some of the US stuff coming over etc.


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
So WHAT does the EU really stand for ????/forums/images/icons/cool.gif
 
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