re:french boats...beneteaus etc

[irishmark]

re:french boats...beneteaus etc

ok now here a story for you was walking around a marina in st lucia on hols and was chatting to another "crew" member, we were discussing what boat we would use if were to cross the altantic and sail around for several months like most of these boats were planning too. We passed a 40 odd ft beneteau and a jenneau of roughly the same size, my fellow crew member was saying,,,what nice boats etc etc...then our skipper walks up and totally rubishes what she said, "ok listen these may be nice for sailing in the med etc...but they are designed for charter sailing and not designed for bashing accross biscay or the atlantic" i pointed out that non-charter boat scould have totally different specs i.e. longer keels etc, but he wouldn't listen..was he right?????

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[Twister_Ken]

Comparison

You might wear your trainers to walk around the shops, but you wouldn't use them to climb in the Himalayas.

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[jimi]

Re: Comparison

Depends who's wearing 'em. I guess old manky boats tend to have a slightly easier motion as they wallow about when beating into a heavy sea. As the owner of a Bennie I would'nt feel any more or less safe in it than I would in a Contessa 32 ..

<hr width=100% size=1>.. whit way roon should it be again ..

 

[irishmark]

Re: Comparison

but would you buy a 40 odd ft bene or jeneau to sail from yk to med to caribbean??

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[Roberto]

Kim

for those with limited internet connections, could it be possible to have a mark in the front page of the fora meaning

"AWB against Longkeeler thread" ?

cheers!

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[AlexL]

Look at the entry list for the ARC for your answer! Many people would say that Beneteaus, Bavarias etc. are unsuitable, however all the so-called "charter yacht" manufacturers have a large representation in the ARC, and so are obviously capable of crossing the atlantic as they do it every year. There are theoritically better designs for serious sailing -, just as there are better car designs, but how many of us drive mid-engined, twin wishbone suspension, single plane V8 engined cars?
Anyway there are very few rights and wrongs, just opinions.

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[nicho]

Re: Comparison

An awful lot do....and successfully!!

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[david_e]

Re: was he right?

To answer your question, no he wasn't right. The suggestion that crossing the Atlantic or Biscay is the only place where you get unpleasant and dangerous conditions is a complete nonsense.

The issue of safety is more to do with the equipement, skipper and crew - when you are talking about boats of these lengths.

6m mini transats cross single handed at high speed, last year a Swan 60 got badly mangled on a crossing etc etc.

Out of preference or choice you might choose a heavy expensive boat, but that doesn't preclude others from achieving the same objective.

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[jimi]

Re: Comparison

I would'nt have a problem with that .. might get there quicker as well

<hr width=100% size=1>.. whit way roon should it be again ..

 

[Hunter34]

Personally I think what a boat is capable of doing is more to do with the skipper & crew rather than displacement, keel configuration or size.
My boat has the same kind of displacement-ballast-rolly over figures as a French boat but I have happily sailed across the Atlantic through some good and some not so good weather and have lived to tell the tale.
I have never sailed a full keel heavy displacement boat so I cant comment on whether they are more suitable for such a crossing (though I must admit most tend to be nicer looking) but I do know that when sailing up big Atlantic swells I have marvelled at the heavy displacement boats ability to go through the wave rather than over it.Personally I like to bob over the top.
On the subject or charter rigs the answer is yes some charter boats have different size masts (not sure about keels) that boats for private sale.
Before I bought the Hunter I looked at a few of the Sunlight 30s that Sunsail had for sale.All their boats had a shorter mast with single spreader whereas all the private ones I looked at had a taller rig with double spreader.

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[Aardee]

For what it's worth...As the owner of a French "Charter Boat" (a Gib'sea), the only limiting factor for me would be the amount/ layout of stowage on board

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[salvex]

Aren't all these 'this boat is better than that boat' threads a complete and utter waste of time? Surely every boat is a compromise of some sort and is designed with a particular use i.e. owner in mind. That means that some will be 'safer' than others by design but you wouldn't want to live aboard for any length of time etc. etc.

I bought a US Hunter 34 and I sail it within my capabilities and comfort levels. Up to now that has been well within the limits of the boat and I'm sure it will 'tell' me when it starts to get to its limits. The main factors in 'production' boats, as has already been suggested, are crew competency and equipment levels. The Hunter is very roomy for a 34 footer, has a good beam for its size and I've single handed it up and down the Caribbean in some pretty rough weather. If I were to get into trouble the first one I would blame would be me - not the boat.

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[robp]

A much hackneyed old chessnut that at least Roberto is bored with! It's interesting to see where actual bad experiences of "AWB's" and simple predjudice crossover. Maybe that skipper should have said "I would prefer to be caught in inclement weather mid Atlantic, in a heavier, full keeled boat". Or maybe he was questioning his own ability? I'd take my Benny across but would be happier gaining ocean experience with someone first. The open 60's that go in the Southern Ocean are "featherweights" after all. And at the end of the day all 35-40 foot boats are tiny in a malevolent feeling Atlantic Ocean.

I know that the French have their "go anywhere boats" too but I really would be interested to hear say 20 views from regular French sailors on this subject. Just how much of the opinion we see, is Brit traditionalism? "Those Renaults and Citroens are weird lightweight jobs, what you need is a nice old Rover 90"

Maybe our French based and speaking forumites could help here?

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[Sybarite]

Re: Comparison

There are a lot of people who hold with the notion that a lighter boat "gives" with the seas and is therefore not stressed to the same extent as a heavier boat - which needs to have correspondingly heavier rigging as a result. I tend to think that it is an issue of comfort rather than safety.

Feeling used to carry an ad concerning a well known delivery skipper who was caught out in a full Atlantic hurricane in a Feeling 10m40. It came through it with absolutely nothing broken.

John.

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[irishmark]

Re: Comparison

i think what our skipper was saying that if bad weather did catch up with him etc that he'd prefer a a HR or what we were sailing...westerly oceanlord. i didn't realise the beneteau and jenneau have heaver "blue water" boats as well?? or is it jut sthe fact that some are bigger and thus larger displacement.....another question if you were going to buy a 36-44ft ish boot to do what i outlined...uk/med/cross atlantic/carabbean/panama canal etc what would you buy withen limited means??

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[Twister_Ken]

Why buy new?

Nothing obliges you to buy new. For a long distance cruiser it would be very tempting to buy something that already been there, done that, thoroughly equipped. As you long as you took your toolbox and a load of spares...


Don't forget also there are a lot of US boats that we Euros are not very familiar with, things like Westsails, Crealocks, Hinckleys, Pacific Seacraft, etc, which also could be on the shopping list as long as you don't want to start out from Europe and therefore have to have a CE approved boat.

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[Roberto]

Religion wars

As far as I see about French discussions, there are not many about awb vs long keel, religion wars are rather concentrated on

1.aluminum against grp, quickly becoming sardine tin against tupperware,

2.fixed keel vs moveable keel (swinging, lifting et al)

3. monoboat vs multiboat, with battle subsection 3a. trimaran vs catamaran

as ybw forumites are well aware, French never won a war, so the three above are likely to continue for a long time

as the UK won most (pardon, all) of their wars, I am confident some supremacy will be found in the future: an awb'er massacree ? longkeelers torpedoing ?

cheers

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[robp]

Re: Religion wars

That's what we love - a different agenda..

Yes we win the wars but... well I won't go there.

I'll watch my stern. Maybe go on the other side of the boating lake!

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[Chris_Robb]

Re: Comparison

Mark - try something like this - it will be around years after the current Benjenbavs have well and truly expired. <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.myboatdetails.com/corsair>HERE</A>

Extremely good value as well - the equal to any HR!

<hr width=100% size=1><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Chris_Robb on 23/01/2004 16:46 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[Mr Cassandra]

Re:Kim please

Kim can we all use this forum to sell boats ?
I for one have seen enough of that for sale advert. There was a Victory 40 up for sale at £39000.in Prevasa There is one for sale in Turkey at £42,500 So why is the English owned boat on the market at £59 999. Williams & Smithells have been trying to move one at this price for approx two years .I wonder how many Jen/ben/bavs they have sold in that time. bob t

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