Re engine 16M trawler yacht

silverdee

silverdee

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Hi,
Haven`t posted here before but was hoping for advice.
Have (the boat in my profile pic) a Tyler mouldings /Arun type that I only want to do circa 8knts in. Decided to repower from the original tamd 70b 250 hp Volvos 1976 vintage. Boat weighs circa 38 tons. So looking for recommendations for suitable brand new engines (will replace gear boxes as well). Specifically looking at m250 c perkins or what about john deere 6068tfm50 6.8 litre or what would be a suitable Volvo choice? Other suggestions? Also v hard to get even a ball park price from tinternet , the perkies look like 20k ish each does anyone know even in v approx. sense if deeres are dear so to speak ??
Loads of other refit/upgrade work to do as want to (finally) break away from uk weather and head to S of France so will endeavour to do a thread with photos on that as soon as get Boat back to Blighty.
thanks in advance for advice or contacts etc.
 
Hiya. No picture loaded for some reason. Anyway, here are some pics of the lovely Silver Dee. It would be very handy if Latestarter1 and VolvoPaul could comment on suitable engines for this project

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jfm said:
Hiya. No picture loaded for some reason. Anyway, here are some pics of the lovely Silver Dee. It would be very handy if Latestarter1 and VolvoPaul could comment on suitable engines for this project

IMG_4526.jpg


IMG_4522.jpg


IMG_4514.jpg


IMG_4512.jpg


IMG_4511.jpg
Click to expand...

If, I should win the lottery, how much should I put aside, to buy something like that?
 
alant said:
If, I should win the lottery, how much should I put aside, to buy something like that?
Click to expand...
:D SD is a new poster, so he will have posted that a few days ago and then it will have sat in moderatorsville awaiting approval. He my therefore not check back in for a while, but I'll prompt him

It's a beautiful ship. Lower deck has 4 ensuite cabins below served by 2 staircases, plus walk-in e/room. Main deck has a big saloon, then enclosed galley just abaft of wheelhouse side doors, then a door-closeable wheelhouse. Flybrdige is quite big and served by two staircases

It needs a pair of new 250hp engines this winter, ready to move to Med. Current engines are too smokey on start up and have some thousands of hours. Hence this thread, asking for advice on which engines to buy. They need to be long lifers not high rpm highly stressed things good for only a couple of thousand hours. Boat will also get new genset, props, gearboxes and a full mechanical refit. Nice project!

Anyway, I'll ask SilverDee to look back in here...
 
Thanks all.
JFM I must learn to work a `puter and will sort profile pic.
Hi Jimmy.
Alant as you know the money is all in the running and upgrades on a 1976 vintage like Silver Dee and worse once we have finished spending on 2x engines/gearboxes ,a genny ,aircon, passarelle, flybridge upgrade etc etc we will have spent more than our original purchase price on just this refit.
So any help from forumites re choice of engines more than appreciated.
 
jfm said:
Lower deck has 4 ensuite cabins below served by 2 staircases, plus walk-in e/room.
Click to expand...
Wow, that's indeed impressive, considering the size of the boat!
The builder must have done a helluva job of exploiting every inch available.
And lovely boat indeed, generally speaking, congrats to the OP!

Re. the engines, having a very similar size/weight trawler, one thing I can tell for sure is that for 8 knots cruising SD will use much less than 500hp.
And by "much less", I mean MUCH less: according to the prop demand curves of my engines, I'm using roughly 50 to 60 hp per side to cruise at 8 knots (which btw is what I cruise at, most of the time).
So, I wouldn't rule out also smaller engines, though of course some power reserve is always necessary, e.g. for cruising in very rough sea, strong current, etc.
For the brands, at the size we're talking about my personal preference would be for Cummins, JD or Cat, but that's me.
Surely there are folks around here that could give more accurate suggestions.
 
It is not just the power you need to be looking at ... you also need to be somewhere around the same weight (or add ballast)..... if a too light engine is chosen, you may affect her behaviour at sea...

I'd hazard to guess that a Cummins 6CTA 250 should be ery nice onboard her ... Engine is re-buildable and at that rating, she should be a lifetime job .... could even fit in two 350's if you got them for the right money ...

Good luck.... and welcome to the forum!!
 
This could be another interesting re engine thread I hope.

I don't think I'd go down the Volvo route although I tend to be involved with high rated hp leisure engines, I'd have to do some research into marine de rated models for an answer.

I'm sure latestarter will know what exactly fits the bill, but in my view you don't have to spend the amount you have stated on a re power project unless you want brand new motors , LS will come up with a cummins unit that fits the bill I'm sure.

You could look for a pair of volvopenta Tamd63l units that are rated 318 hp at 2800 rpm, I re engined a powles 46 a while back taking out a pair of 70E motors and fitting a pair of recon Tamd 61s at a fraction of the cost of a D6 repower.
 
MapisM said:
Wow, that's indeed impressive, considering the size of the boat!
The builder must have done a helluva job of exploiting every inch available.
And lovely boat indeed, generally speaking, congrats to the OP!

Re. the engines, having a very similar size/weight trawler, one thing I can tell for sure is that for 8 knots cruising SD will use much less than 500hp.
And by "much less", I mean MUCH less: according to the prop demand curves of my engines, I'm using roughly 50 to 60 hp per side to cruise at 8 knots (which btw is what I cruise at, most of the time).
So, I wouldn't rule out also smaller engines, though of course some power reserve is always necessary, e.g. for cruising in very rough sea, strong current, etc.
For the brands, at the size we're talking about my personal preference would be for Cummins, JD or Cat, but that's me.
Surely there are folks around here that could give more accurate suggestions.
Click to expand...
Mapism your comments about power make good sense and I've been wondering about it a while. SD is my brother and therefore has the same boat mad DNA as me

The boat has its original engines and my feeling is they have been under propped for a while or maybe forever. My brother has added a few tonnes of dive gear and ballast yet the engines reach top rpm a bit easily and I suspect the governor is only squirting half the fuel and power that it could. It does max out at 8 kts though. So a pair of slightly smaller or derated engines might be perfect. Maybe 175 hp. With the right props these might cruise nicely at 8 and offer 11 when in a hurry

The boat is in commission and I'd like somewhow to measure the bhp absorbed at 8 kts. Alas there is no fuel flow metering on the boat. We could get a prop put through Clements " MRI scanner" to get a good estimate of power absorbed at a given rpm perhaps

Gotta turn phone off. Door shut...
 
silverdee, I guess one way to look at this is to find out what manufacturers of present day displacement trawler yachts are using in their boats of similar size and AFAIK, they tend to favour low revving, low powered (relative to capacity) engines from the likes of John Deere and Lugger
 
Lovely looking boat. Sorry for a slight tread drift, do you mind me asking where those photos are taken? Best of luck with the project!
 
Lovely boat SD. I would have thought you would do well with something like the Cummins 6BTAs which I have. Lovely slow revving things and developed from the biggest selling diesel block ever, although no longer made, I think, so no hope of brand-new.

BTW, as jfm will confirm, my engineering ignorance is quite shockingly profound so don't take my recommendation too seriously.
 
silverdee said:
Hi,
Haven`t posted here before but was hoping for advice.
Have (the boat in my profile pic) a Tyler mouldings /Arun type that I only want to do circa 8knts in. Decided to repower from the original tamd 70b 250 hp Volvos 1976 vintage. Boat weighs circa 38 tons. So looking for recommendations for suitable brand new engines (will replace gear boxes as well). Specifically looking at m250 c perkins or what about john deere 6068tfm50 6.8 litre or what would be a suitable Volvo choice? Other suggestions? Also v hard to get even a ball park price from tinternet , the perkies look like 20k ish each does anyone know even in v approx. sense if deeres are dear so to speak ??
Loads of other refit/upgrade work to do as want to (finally) break away from uk weather and head to S of France so will endeavour to do a thread with photos on that as soon as get Boat back to Blighty.
thanks in advance for advice or contacts etc.
Click to expand...

Before we go any further may I ask a few more questions........

What sort of annual usage do you intend once re-power completed?

'76' 70B generally came with Twin Disc transmissions, some models little changed to present day and whilst expensive totally re-build-able. What thoughts have you had on transmission, I have a wild card for you.

What size wheels are you turning? I will put money on the fact that your current Volvos have SAE 2 flywheel housings, turning large wheels and SAE 3 flywheels simply do not work when maneuvering.

Assume 24 volt on current engines?

Lets get one motor out of the way.......Perkins Sabre 1100 Series M250, engine has been a complete flop, very few sold, Golden Arrow claimed last year that they had only sold five since product was launched and several of those suffered head gasket failures, even their salesmen do not like the motor. Tier II engine, due for replacement soon by something quite different at Tier III. Also surprising for Perkins it is real expensive.....

Deere 6068 good call, M2 rating 266 SAE hp, will do the job, SAE 2 flywheel housing option, would seem to fit the bill pretty well. Deere tend to be at the bottom of the heap when it comes to base engine pricing, however options can add big $$, like any engine be 100% sure of detail stuff before even asking for a quote.

I will throw another option at you Cummins QSB 6.7 250hp medium continuous rating i.e up to 5,000 hrs/year. Can specced with SAE 2 housing. Downside, will be more expensive than Deere, Tier III engine and Cummins on drugs when it come to pricing this engine as it is selling in big numbers.

Wild card.........Cummins QSL 9 Tier II motor in heavy duty continuous rating 282hp @ 1,800 rpm, SAE 2 as standard, good news following years of complaints by distributors about QSL9 pricing now less expensive than QSB 6.7 in similar ratings.

Why no CAT C7, the whole marine strategy up in the air until deal with Iveco nailed down and no match for common rail competition, yes 255 rating and SAE 2 flywheel housing option.

Volvo D6, completely wrong engine in this application 280 rating is 3,500 rpm and even with deep reduction transmission has no place in this company.

Once we have better view of your aspirations and detailed spec, then only then start asking for quotes.
 
jfm said:
I thought you had thorneycrofts bjb?
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Long story, which Latestarter1 explained to me properly a while back. Gist is that the blocks were built in the Cummins plant in Darlington, shipped out for marinisation, badged and sold under the name Thorneycroft. But they are Cummins B series engines and so there's a million places you can get replacement parts at truck+ prices.
 
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Latestarter1 said:
By smaller capacity you mean LDA (Light Duty Automotive) engines turning big wheels with deep reduction gearboxes....Would never come up on my radar.
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I fully agree LS, but I would think that PCUK meant lower power engines (as I hinted in my previous post).
And if so, of course lower power doesn't necessarily mean lower rating and/or LDA engines.
I'll try to find the data related to my boat, that might be interesting for a comparison.
 
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