LONG_KEELER
Well-Known Member
Any tips on not fouling each other's anchors when rafted up and the tide swings ?
TIA.
TIA.
Rafting . Two boats, individual anchors.
- Thread starter LONG_KEELER
- Start date
Zagato
Well-Known Member
Do you need two anchors? Just asking as we used to raft up 4 Drascombes on one anchor during the day. Not sure how two yachts would cope but it maybe similar physics.
PetiteFleur
Well-Known Member
We've just used a single anchor, from the largest boat, smaller boats either side. Only calm conditions though.
LONG_KEELER
Well-Known Member
Yup . Normally do that and leave if the wind starts to get heavy.
Just thought of giving it a try if my mate is willing.
TernVI
Well-Known Member
If it's windy enough that one anchor won't be fine, you probably should not be rafting.
We used to do this a lot.
Long time ago.
Rarely see it now.
We used to do this a lot.
Long time ago.
Rarely see it now.
Leighb
Well-Known Member
Separate anchors would be a recipe for a horrible wind up! One anchor should suffice, ideally that of the larger boat with an electric windlass. We spent a couple of days like that with a friend in the Alde, when it came to up anchor time our electric windlass had a real struggle! If weather not suitable then don’t raft up.
TernVI
Well-Known Member
We used to weigh anchor by hauling in as much as possible by hand then sailing around in circles.
No windlasses for us in those days.
jbweston
Well-Known Member
Use a single anchor from the largest boat. You'll be bumping and grinding together horribly before too much strain is put on the anchor. If it's calm enough to be rafted comfortably then you should be OK.
Presumably you aren't going to leave the boats unattended like this, so if the grinding starts or if the wind gets up you're all going to slip pronto, get some separation and get your own anchors down in a seamanlike manner.
The main problem would be if the water is very sheltered but the wind gets up and whips through hard. Again you'll monitor the strain on the anchor and slip the raft pronto if it's getting a bit much.
I hate getting two anchors and rodes anywhere near each other. At worst they tangle into a bugger's muddle. At best the boat with the chain underneath wants to leave before the boat with a chain on top - which leads to multi-lingual coordination issues.
Presumably you aren't going to leave the boats unattended like this, so if the grinding starts or if the wind gets up you're all going to slip pronto, get some separation and get your own anchors down in a seamanlike manner.
The main problem would be if the water is very sheltered but the wind gets up and whips through hard. Again you'll monitor the strain on the anchor and slip the raft pronto if it's getting a bit much.
I hate getting two anchors and rodes anywhere near each other. At worst they tangle into a bugger's muddle. At best the boat with the chain underneath wants to leave before the boat with a chain on top - which leads to multi-lingual coordination issues.
HissyFit
Well-Known Member
What other vessels will be around you? If there is nothing else then one puts anchor out front, the other puts anchor out back and together you don't swing. Only problem is if there is an on-beam chop making things uncomfortable.
LONG_KEELER
Well-Known Member
Bad idea - Thanks chaps..
LONG_KEELER
Well-Known Member
Neeves
Well-Known Member
A modern anchor of the largest yacht will be more than adequate to hold two yachts, particularly as most people seem to oversize their anchor. We, all of us, never use our modern anchors to their true potential - when was tha least time anyone with a modern anchor dragged as a result of the anchor inadequacies - I generalise but assume you are anchoring in a recognised anchorage with decent holding.
As mentioned if the conditions are bracing, chop and swell, you will not be rafting up anyway. If thunderstorms are in the forecast - you will not be rafting up (I hope).
If it s a gorgeous summers day and evening, a sheltered anchorage - no reason not to anchor up overnight, on one anchor. If its awful weather you will be at home painting the spare bedroom
A further comment - the anchor might be big enough to hold 2, or more yachts, in a raft - but the shackle may not be adequate (how many people actually buy decent shackles?). You may not discover the inadequacies of the shackle until the well set anchor is retrieved (or not). Some way gave me their failed shackle - it had locked up at an angle - the pin simply pulled out of the thread - he lost his almost new anchor.
I would not use a stern anchor - if the wind veers you are putting a strain on both anchors - in a direction for which they are not designed.
If you want to use 2 anchors set them in a 'V' off the largest yacht - assuming the wind is not to veer through 180 degrees (or even 90 degrees)
Basically rafting if fine - choose your forecast.
Jonathan
As mentioned if the conditions are bracing, chop and swell, you will not be rafting up anyway. If thunderstorms are in the forecast - you will not be rafting up (I hope).
If it s a gorgeous summers day and evening, a sheltered anchorage - no reason not to anchor up overnight, on one anchor. If its awful weather you will be at home painting the spare bedroom
A further comment - the anchor might be big enough to hold 2, or more yachts, in a raft - but the shackle may not be adequate (how many people actually buy decent shackles?). You may not discover the inadequacies of the shackle until the well set anchor is retrieved (or not). Some way gave me their failed shackle - it had locked up at an angle - the pin simply pulled out of the thread - he lost his almost new anchor.
I would not use a stern anchor - if the wind veers you are putting a strain on both anchors - in a direction for which they are not designed.
If you want to use 2 anchors set them in a 'V' off the largest yacht - assuming the wind is not to veer through 180 degrees (or even 90 degrees)
Basically rafting if fine - choose your forecast.
Jonathan
prv
Well-Known Member
Hopefully this is teaching you to suck eggs, but make sure you raft so that your masts are separated fore and aft, and can roll past each other instead of colliding. A few years ago I watched two boats in Osborne Bay fail to do this, some ship's wash came in, and one of the boats lost a spreader and hence a shroud. He was lucky not to lose the mast, and motored gingerly back to Portsmouth with a halyard to the toe-rail.
(Even if you know this, someone else may read it and save themselves an accident one day.)
Pete
(Even if you know this, someone else may read it and save themselves an accident one day.)
Pete
LadyInBed
Well-Known Member
Lucky Duck
Well-Known Member
Something similar happened to a member of the forum who rafted up to watch the Clacton air show.
Similarly a friend had his boat's guardrails ripped out when he chose to raft and a passing ship's wash caused the two boats to crash together.
HissyFit
Well-Known Member
One anchor good; two anchors bad? If that is true then I really need to retake logic 101.
James_Calvert
Well-Known Member
On sorting out a pair of twisted anchor cables after rafting with two anchors the only way I know is to single up on one and then bring the second cable out on deck from its locker then pass it round and round the first until it's unwound.
Easier to do with rope cable...
There may be other methods but I haven't given myself another opportunity to try any.
Easier to do with rope cable...
There may be other methods but I haven't given myself another opportunity to try any.
Neeves
Well-Known Member
Hissy - yes I would check the logic.
Anchors are designed to offer the maximum hold in a specific direction. If the tension increases on a modern anchor it sets more deeply - the hold increases. But the anchor is designed and sized to hold the yacht in a fore and aft orientation - as this is the yacht with its lowest windage.
Now we have two yachts, sitting broadside on to the wind, much more than twice the windage, maybe 4 times (think of the boom and furled sail, dodgers - all designed to be fore and aft to the wind) and certainly much greater weight. The yachts cannot swing and turn into the wind, they are restrained at the stern. Both anchors are being side loaded. The anchor have much more than twice the 'designed' load on them, the mass of 2 yachts and maybe 4 times the windage.
Now do you know the hold of your anchor when side loaded?
If you expect both anchors to swing predictably and increase hold - think again - unless you have tested your anchor and know how it will perform. I've tested anchors - they tend to roll onto their side, the hold dramatically deceases - a slight stronger gust and bit of chop unseat them and off the 2 yachts go, tied together. A dragging anchor off the bow and a anchor off the stern being pulled underneath between the keels.
Please check your logic.
2 anchors of the bow - fine - an arrangement I would support.
Jonathan
Quandary
Well-Known Member
Or if Neeves has not convinced you, get a metre of string put a weight in the middle, an end in each hand and try straightening it, or just have a look at the relative size of the tower anchors on the nearest suspension bridge.
HissyFit
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the reply. I get 2 anchors in a 'V' on one boat, as one covers for the worst angle of the other. And I do get that lying sideways to the wind is not good, re windage. By what you say, I'd probably be shocked by how narrow an angle an anchor lets go. Further study required.
