Radio Licence Penalties

[Mike_Martin]

I posted this in the "VHF Question" thread (in the Motor Boat Chat Forum) and have just decided that I would be interested in feedback on it but that it might be missed in there. The last para of my response may be of interest!

The question was:
" So whats the maximum fine for not having A. a radio licence. And B. an operators licence?"

The answer was:
"An Operators Certificate is a licence requirement, so if we come across you using a radio without it, you have invalidated the Ship Radio Licence and therefore rendered yourself liable to prosecution. In other words you can be treated the same as if you don't have a licence.

The Communications Act that made us part of Ofcom changed the way that we prosecute. The possibility of taking the case to Crown Court for simple unlicensed use has now gone, along with the unlimited fine and/or 12 mths in prison. At present a prosecution would take place through the Magistrates Court leaving a maximum fine of £5,000 and/or 6 mths custodial sentence.

The Act also made provision for on-the-spot penalties, this is something that Ofcom is actively discussing with the DTI in order to set the penalty levels before implementing. "

Mike

<hr width=100% size=1>Team Executive,
Maritime & Aeronautical Team, Ofcom

 

[StugeronSteve]

Cheers Mike, you're all heart. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

<hr width=100% size=1>Think I'll draw some little rabbits on my head, from a distance they might be mistaken for hairs.

 

[steve_cronin]

Yeah....

..there speaks a true exponent of the Regulator's craft.

Steve Cronin

What will regulators regulate when they run out of things to regulate?

Regulation itself perhaps?





<hr width=100% size=1>The above is, like any other post here, only a personal opinion

 

[Peppermint]

Re: This is the sort of thing I love

about this country.

The same tossers appear week in and week out in my local "Court Report", robbing and fighting, driving while uninsured or licenced and refusing to pay there pitifully small fines. Then you get the middle classes. A woman is find £1000 for not having her dog under control, people are fined £100's for not having a train ticket or a TV licence and now the bain of our lives the chattering VHF could result in a five grand wallet raid.

It's about time this country got its bloody priorities squared up.

It is something I intend to address. I am licenced to operate and the set is licensed to use. I don't use it more than twice a year and I can't here it half the time cos it's spouting drivel and I turn it off. I think I'll get shot of it. So there you go Mr. Martin another step forward for safety. Well done.

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[Joe_Cole]

Foul!

Tom,

I have some sympathy for the point you are making, but I think that it's out of order to "have a go" at Mike Martin.

And I don't believe that you'll go ahead and dump your VHF! /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

Joe

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[sailorman]

Re: This is the sort of thing I love

wot about basing the licience fee on "usage" that should stuff the "radio checkers"

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[Peppermint]

Re: Why not

either of your points.

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[Joe_Cole]

Re: VHF set for sale

Tom,

I'll believe it when I see you post it on the "For Sale" pages on this site! /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

I don't believe you'll dump it, because I think you've got more sense than that....but prove me wrong by all means!

Joe

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[brianhumber]

Re: This is the sort of thing I love

Agree - see my earlier post about death of Common Sense.

I have not bought a DSC set yet and reading about all the false alert signals have no intention of doing so. Guess when the Sat phones reach same cost as new VHF I will throw my old VHF over board and the gov civil servants can stick their digits in where its hurts them most..

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[petery]

Civil servants don\'t make the laws..

We should be asking why the RYA are not talking to politicans to prevent this kind of thing happening

... but maybe the RYA is making too much money out of the farcical VHF test and certificate ... if you're breathing at the end of the course and have the cash - you pass. Our local school never bothers with the written test!

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[T_C]

A question for you Mike, what do you define as "using" your VHF?
From previous posts I'm sure you are well aware (and probably my boat details are logged somewhere in your department) that, although I pay my licence fee, I do not have an Operator's Cert to go with it. My understanding is that, as long as I don't use the set to transmit and my sole usage is to listen to the various safety broadcasts, forecasts, radio checks or whatever, I am "legal".
I am under the impression that I can transmit if it is a life threatening situation to my vessel without punity.

Am I wrong in this belief?
If I am, I will dump the set, and you'll be £22 or so worse off...

I know you will retort that it is a breach of the licence agreement not to have an operator's cert, but I would like to know what, if I am not transmitting, I might be doing to upset the Authorities.

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[claymore]

Is the point of having a licence

to ensure that correct radio procedures are adhered to at all times?

I could understand if, in the interests of safety, that was the case. It would also seem to indicate that either people forget the teachings of the course and revert to their own brand of radiospeak, or there are plenty of people out there who don't have an operators licence. So there are plenty of 'over and outs' and mix ups when being asked to "go to ch 67 and stand by" by the Coastguard. It also seems its impossible to police so what kind of infringement would you have to commit to be prosecuted?
Finally - what actual harm is done if people get procedural sequences wrong - other than irritating purists?

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple>regards
Claymore<font color=purple>
/forums/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[BustinAround]

Re: Yeah....

Been done, its called the courts service.

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[Sybarite]

I bought my boat in France and asked for an "Acte de Francisation". They said as a foreigner I couldn't have it and the boat should take the owner's nationality. I asked the "Affaires Maritimes " to survey the seaworthiness of my boat for chartering purposes. They refused on the grounds I was a foreigner thus depriving me of rental income but at least not rendering me liable to the onerous safety costs of "French" boats. I asked for a radio license. They refused on the grounds that I have a red ensign. I contacted the RYA and they refused on the grounds that I'm based in France. (I sent copies of the letters to both authorities and told them if they could agree between them I would be happy to comply. Fourteen years ago.) Last week I got stopped by the French Douane and told I had committed a "gross infraction" by not having a British registration. I'm Irish I said. But you have a British flag. Yes I'm an Irish citizen and a British subject. You must have an SSR registration. Why, I asked, if I'm already registered in France? Still you must do it. I asked them how I could do it without incurring an expense because that would be against the European Convention on the freedom of movement of goods and would be discriminatory against me compared with another (French) resident. He then said I should take the French Flag because my boat is registered in France. So now I must incur the costs of complying with French regulations without having had the advantage of rental income? Pas question....!!!

He advised me that he planned to visit me the following day after having checked his facts and asked me where I would be. Sailing, I said....

Am I legal? If not, need I care?

Oh and French registered boats no longer need to pay a license fee.


John


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[beachbum]

YOU - owner/master & holder of Ship's Licence - don't need an Operator's Certificate, just so long as SOMEONE on board has one. (Anyone using the set is then doing so, technically, under the supervision of the qualified operator.) So the kind of cross-checking you refer is irrelevant

<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1>Nobody is perfect.
I am nobody.
Therefore I am perfect.</font size=1> /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

 

[snowleopard]

Regulation for its own sake...

you have said before on this forum that the purpose of the licencing process is to prevent anarchy on the airwaves.

so rather than prosecute people who are causing problems on air you are going to prosecute those who have not paid the fees. and you expect us to believe it isn't about raising revenue? i rest my case.

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[tcm]

Re: anarchy

Blairistes are convinced that anything without a nice load of tax and/or certificates is "anarchy". So, London needs a mayor, scotland needs a parliament, vhf radio needs a licence.

No evidence whatsoever that "chaos" or anarchy wd result without these things, indeed quite the reverse: UK public adapts well to sharing scarce resources whether it is beach space at bournemouth, stand pipes in droughts, petrol in a tanker strike and so on. There is/was little regulatuion with these (in some cases)far mnore extreme circumstances and almost no chaos at all.

VHF-wise, even when there is some chaos (like incessant radio checks or more serious siomeone holding dowen the ptt on ch16) - it's not as tho ofcom or the radio gang does very much about it, nor can they.

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[Mike_Martin]

No retorts from here you are correct!

Although I'm a little worried that you think the licence is still £22!

Mike

<hr width=100% size=1>Team Executive,
Maritime & Aeronautical Team, Ofcom

 

[Mike_Martin]

Re: Is the point of having a licence

The whole point of these Fixed Penalties, I think< are to make it easier to enforce. As Ofcom doesn't need to go to Court everytime in the way that RA did.

The harm would come when radio traffic is heavy, ie someone messing up the carefully constructed HMCG stacking when going to 67 or spending far too long on 16 calling someone.

Mike

<hr width=100% size=1>Team Executive,
Maritime & Aeronautical Team, Ofcom

 

[Mike_Martin]

Sorry your question is a little circular, so apologies if I've misunderstood.

If the boat is French Registered it must have French documentation, it should also not be flying the Red Ensign.

Mike

<hr width=100% size=1>Team Executive,
Maritime & Aeronautical Team, Ofcom