PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
Better in every respect, quality, support, no ripoff cables. Support in particular, Raymarine will fob you off if possible.
Radar System: YES or NO? - Do you really need a radar cruising the Med?
- Thread starter Skipper Felice
- Start date
Skipper Felice
Well-Known Member
Yes - this is all my technical friends tell me: Furuno seems to be the best professional radar systems.
But I will not integrate a new Furuno radar; I will stay with my old fashion Raytheon: It works, it has some color display and it is usable for the next 10-30 times over the next 5 years.
But what would be a good alternative to the old Raymarine gear? Today - after 40years experience with US SW & HW systems ... I am no longer a friend of this.
SIMRAD ? | B&G? | Garmin (US ... ....) | Furuno ?
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
Simrad and B&G are part of Navico, i wouldn't touch them with a bargepole. Furuno is pricey and not at all intuitive, very few private leisure boats use Furuno for these reasons. Garmin every time for me, had it on all of my own boats and fitted it to countless customer boats.
Hurricane
Well-Known Member
I agree with you with the others but for me, Raymarine has the edge - more intuitive than Garmin but thats just personal taste.
When I spec'd my G Series 18 years ago, Raymarine was the only one at the time that had a sensible alternate video input for the PC system that I like to have running in parallel to the main Nav system.
Also, I don't like touch screens - have you tried using them in a big sea - totally useless.
Alicatt
Well-Known Member
I have the Simrad Go9XSE chartplotter on the upper helm, it can take a radar input, I like it a lot better than the Garmin Echomap 95SV I have on my lower helm, it is easier to use and much more user friendly when it comes to updating it, as I have a WiFi/4g router on board the Go9 connects to that and keeps it's self up to date all by it's self, where the Garmin requires you to log your phone onto the Echomap, use Active Captain to get the details from the device, then log off, log back onto your WiFi and then download any updates, then go through the same thing again, log onto the Echomap wifi, transfer the updates
jrudge
Well-Known Member
Like others I rarely use it.
If I go out at night then yes but this is once in about 3 years.
For long passages ( Mallorca / sardina - Corsica / Antibes I use it if for nothing else to see where other boats are if it all goes wrong.
I transmit and receive ais.
As others have said the cost in the scheme of things is nominal and if you sell it a buyer will expect it to have one.
If I go out at night then yes but this is once in about 3 years.
For long passages ( Mallorca / sardina - Corsica / Antibes I use it if for nothing else to see where other boats are if it all goes wrong.
I transmit and receive ais.
As others have said the cost in the scheme of things is nominal and if you sell it a buyer will expect it to have one.
Sticky Fingers
Well-Known Member
Totally agree with this.
Sticky Fingers
Well-Known Member
This isn’t my experience but you have much greater expertise than I do.
My last-but-one boat, bought new in 2017, had Garmin which failed with water ingress after 23 months, was very painful and difficult and combative getting it replaced under warranty. Current boat has ancient Raytheon and recent Raymarine kit interfaced using some magic boxes, but still working fine and very intuitive and easy to use.
So unlike you I’d prefer Raymarine but absolutely respect your view.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
As far as user preference goes Raymarine vs Garmin is a lot like iPhone vs Android, can't really argue against what people prefer.
I've had quite a bit of experience with service from both companies and have always found Raymaine difficult to deal with and reluctant to replace faulty equipment, although i did recently have a good experience with them swapping a faulty Quantum radar for a customer, although he had to pay £600. Garmin on the other hand have been very good with replacing equipment, either in or out of warranty. They have, just this week, agreed to swap the VHF on my own boat because the mic cables are cracking, the mics and the VHF have been discontinued and waaay out of warranty, so i'm pretty happy with them.
Greg2
Well-Known Member
An interesting discussion.
The use of AIS for collision avoidance has been mentioned but in the commercial maritime world that is not what is taught. I did an electronics/bridge watch keeping course last year and it was very clear that AIS cannot be relied upon, not just because not all vessels are transmitting, but also because vessel records can be inaccurate and there can be delays in transmissions so what you are seeing on the plotter may not be accurate. It wasn’t a point for discussion, it was crystal clear that AIS is only an additional layer of information and should never be relied upon for collision avoidance.
What doesn’t appear to have been mentioned is the value of radar as a navigational tool. I appreciate that the OP’s original question was about the Med, so perhaps a different context to my N. Sea boating, but I find radar to be very helpful for coastal navigation and as already mentioned, when visibility deteriorates it comes into its own.
In the scheme of the costs boat ownership my view is that omitting radar wold be an odd choice but I do accept that I am influenced by operating coded vessels at work and the value of different but complimentary systems.
On the Garmin versus Raymarine debate I am very partisan having had Garmin at work and on one of our own boats….I much prefer Raymarine and dislike Garmin in the same way that I dislike Android compared to my iPhone!
I can’t disagree with Paul though, Raymarine are a bit of a rip-off with their bespoke cables!
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The use of AIS for collision avoidance has been mentioned but in the commercial maritime world that is not what is taught. I did an electronics/bridge watch keeping course last year and it was very clear that AIS cannot be relied upon, not just because not all vessels are transmitting, but also because vessel records can be inaccurate and there can be delays in transmissions so what you are seeing on the plotter may not be accurate. It wasn’t a point for discussion, it was crystal clear that AIS is only an additional layer of information and should never be relied upon for collision avoidance.
What doesn’t appear to have been mentioned is the value of radar as a navigational tool. I appreciate that the OP’s original question was about the Med, so perhaps a different context to my N. Sea boating, but I find radar to be very helpful for coastal navigation and as already mentioned, when visibility deteriorates it comes into its own.
In the scheme of the costs boat ownership my view is that omitting radar wold be an odd choice but I do accept that I am influenced by operating coded vessels at work and the value of different but complimentary systems.
On the Garmin versus Raymarine debate I am very partisan having had Garmin at work and on one of our own boats….I much prefer Raymarine and dislike Garmin in the same way that I dislike Android compared to my iPhone!
I can’t disagree with Paul though, Raymarine are a bit of a rip-off with their bespoke cables!
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Sticky Fingers
Well-Known Member
The cost of a cable is microscopic in comparison.
Skipper Felice
Well-Known Member
Yes - I agree ... I will keep my old fashion Raytheon radar - sometimes it might be usefull and I can do some learning. A few years ago I have done a radar course.
Now - what do you think with other electronics: B&G or SIMRAD or ???
Last September I was cruising with a nice Greenline 45, year 2020 and I had to use a SIMRAD gps, plotter, vhf system. Not bad - it was quite handy.
markc
Well-Known Member
I have mostly Raymarine kit and have always found their customer service to be very good. A couple of years ago a software update bricked the Seatalk NG thing whilst I was away and they arranged for a local dealer to drop one off at the boat. No charge and it was prob 5 years old so out of warranty.
julians
Well-Known Member
My current boat came with simrad electronics (a simrad go12xse plotter, simrad echo sounders, simrad vhf, simrad electronic compass etc) , it seems decent to me. I didnt choose it , the boat just came with it all, but I'd choose it again if I had a choice.
Have previously used raymarine stuff, and have no complaints about that either.
Ive never used garmin stuff, but I hear its decent too.
Greg2
Well-Known Member
I don't have any experience of B&G or Simrad so cant offer a view on those. We have Furuno radar at work with Time Zero for navigation - small ships stuff which is very good as you would expect.
Skipper Felice
Well-Known Member
Your experience is like mine: most charter yachts I was sailing around the last 5 years had Raymarine / Axiom systems. I am familliar with the actual Lighthouse and I like it. The SIMRAD system was handy and I had to use it for 3 weeks around Croatia. It was a good system.
I will now take my time over winter and decide for next season: The new STANDARD HORIZON VHF radio with NMEA, DSC, AIS receiver will be installed - perhaps I go with Raymarine ... or I turn to Garmin or SIMRAD for the GPS / plotter / display. With Raymarine I can also stay with my Tridata and the perfect working autopilot.
And the whole nautical data system will be integrated with the new Victron Cerbo battery charger and electric management system.
For remote control and internet / VPN access I already have a Teltronika router with local Italian Data SIM.
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Hurricane
Well-Known Member
If I were to buy a Garmin system, I would want to look very hard at how (in Raymarine terms) you Reset The Cross Track Error.
Imagine you are on a nice relaxed cruise - autopilot/ navigating to a waypoint.
You come across a pod of dolphins and decide to play around with them - something that we have done a lot.
In doing so, you disengage the autopilot.
Afterwards, you need to reengage the autopilot but you don't want the track to go back to the old track, you want the new track to go directly to the old waypoint.
The same thing happens if you have to change course to avoid a collision.
After taking avoidance action, you want to go straight to the waypoint - not work your way back onto the old track.
On a Raymarine system, this ie dead easy - you simply press the Reset Cross Track Error button.
A friend has an 8 year old Garmin system and we cant find out how to do this without cancelling the waypoint and resetting the autopilot.
Not a big deal but I am so used to doing it the easy Raymarine way. If Garmin can't do this, I wouldn't buy it.
In previous threads, JFM has said that it id definitely possible to reset the cross track error with Garmin. It is just that my friend and I cant seem to find how to do it on his system.
Imagine you are on a nice relaxed cruise - autopilot/ navigating to a waypoint.
You come across a pod of dolphins and decide to play around with them - something that we have done a lot.
In doing so, you disengage the autopilot.
Afterwards, you need to reengage the autopilot but you don't want the track to go back to the old track, you want the new track to go directly to the old waypoint.
The same thing happens if you have to change course to avoid a collision.
After taking avoidance action, you want to go straight to the waypoint - not work your way back onto the old track.
On a Raymarine system, this ie dead easy - you simply press the Reset Cross Track Error button.
A friend has an 8 year old Garmin system and we cant find out how to do this without cancelling the waypoint and resetting the autopilot.
Not a big deal but I am so used to doing it the easy Raymarine way. If Garmin can't do this, I wouldn't buy it.
In previous threads, JFM has said that it id definitely possible to reset the cross track error with Garmin. It is just that my friend and I cant seem to find how to do it on his system.
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PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
The Standard Horizon VHF is very good.
It makes absolutely no difference to the old tridata or the autopilot whether you go with Simrad, Garmin or Raymarine. In either case you use a ST to STNG converter to connect to the new network.
Sticky Fingers
Well-Known Member
There are work arounds but no equivalent. I agree with you, the course correction is instant; in a yacht under sail or power this can result in a violent course alteration and potentially an unplanned gybe. I nearly had an MOB due to this a few years ago. Awful.
st599
Well-Known Member
The software for the RYA course is awful, and v. expensive for a club or school who don't run many courses. The course itself has been designed to cover a bare minimum (and doesn't even cover modern CW Radar). They are updating the course, but again they've missed the opportunity of following the US and creating a tool that outputs NMEA sentences on a network that can be displayed on quite a few free software plotters.
Unfortunately the VHF course is the same, it doesn't cover how to install or check the system - it's not plug and play.
Belgium are rolling out VDES, hopefully the UK will follow soon, or we'll have difficulties with travelling abroad and with interference.