Racers Vs cruisers

[Skylark]

Some boaters aren't gentlemen; not just racers.

Very true. About a year or so ago my marina manager asked "did that bloke call you to apologise?" It seems that a visiting yachtsman moving his new boat from Scotland to South Coast (don't know if it was owner or delivery crew) called in for fuel. Towards the fuel berth it seems that he lost steerage and blew broadside onto my anchor. He was given my number to call to apologise and to take responsibility in case of damage to my boat. Needless to say he didn't call me.

 

[RobbieW]

... the semi-fictional "tangled fenders". I've seen fenders saving boat damage in marinas and anchorages many times but I've never seen a tangled fender...

I usually go along with your stance on things; on this one I dont. There is no reason why the OP should have put out fenders on the side away from the pontoon, other than for protection when maneuvering. Tangled fenders often occur in tight marinas, if you ever visit the Hamble look at the gap between Fairview boats in Port Hamble - I would remove my fenders on the boat-boat side to avoid them tangling and making the maneuvre more difficult than it need be. Fault lies solely with the skipper of the other boat; racer, cruiser, mobo or whatever else is irrelevant

 

[Yellow Ballad]

I should point out that we were not rafted.

I understood the situation, I was mearly assuming why you may not of fendered the other side of your boat.

Personally I think a well fendered boat might become a bit of a magnet to an unsure skipper(s) in a sticky situation.

The other week the boat next to mine missed his pickup (parallel fore and aft mooring to shore) and drifted onto and along my boat, and over the top of one of my bow lines. I had fendered my boat both sides along the beam but the forward quarter wasn't. There was about 6-7kn of wind (it's pretty sheltered) and there wasn't any boat speed. I saw it but nothing was said, I didn't bring it up as we all make mistakes now and then and no harm done. I'm sure he he had damaged my boat he would have spoken to me but more because it's club moorings. Might be worth speaking to the marina so they're aware that boat has been pranging others and buggering off, they might have more clout with the owners if it gets back to them.

 

[Blue Sunray]

I think he should name the boat, so that if any of us see it, we can keep well clear.

I believe that it looks rather like this. Though the sponsor, but not colour scheme, has changed.

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ai...T OFWESSEX/_:fb80320bc5ebc6fea58c0001910b1d7a

 

[flaming]

I believe that it looks rather like this. View attachment 65832, though the sponsor has changed.

I had wondered if it did...

 

[RichardS]

I usually go along with your stance on things; on this one I dont. There is no reason why the OP should have put out fenders on the side away from the pontoon, other than for protection when maneuvering. Tangled fenders often occur in tight marinas, if you ever visit the Hamble look at the gap between Fairview boats in Port Hamble - I would remove my fenders on the boat-boat side to avoid them tangling and making the maneuvre more difficult than it need be. Fault lies solely with the skipper of the other boat; racer, cruiser, mobo or whatever else is irrelevant

I understand where the fault lies ... but surely that's not the point at issue. What is at issue is that our boats can easily be damaged by a wayward Skipper who, if we are not present, may well never accept responsibility. Indeed, in the OPs case, won't accept responsibility even though the OP was present.

We have a choice about whether to just accept the possibility that we are going to have to pay for other Skipper's incompetence or whether we should do whatever we reasonably can to stop our boats being damaged in the first place. Leaving fenders out is a no-brainer if you accept the latter point.

As for this "tanged fenders" point .... if that does ever happen in a way that is dangerous or damage-creating then that is so rare that it is 100 times less likely than the chance of damage being created by an incompetent or unlucky Skipper. The incompetent variety is probably too stupid to have remembered to put out fenders on both sides before coming in.

I often see boats in Croatia, usually mobos, squeezing in between each other stern-to in quayside berthing spaces. They use a technique of using engine power to force the two already moored boats apart so they can squeeze in. The fenders squeal and moan and stretch and ride-up .... but after it's all over they all seem to fall back into place or are pulled up and dropped back into place by the crew and I have never seen any damage done to the boats or their fenders during this tortuous process.

I'm not saying that damage is not possible, but, in my experience, it seems to be a lot less likely than the damage resulting from their absence.

Richard

 

[MountainGoat]

Depressing, how often one sees racers' concentrated pursuit of success in a contest, temporarily eclipsing their instinctive shore-taught courtesy..

Mooring on the club pontoon recently, we kept getting buzzed by dinghy racers who wanted a few more metres before they tacked, presumably to gain the upper hand, and were willing to risk collision with a 30 foot yacht engaged in coming alongside a pontoon to do it. I was not best pleased.

 

[Ballyhoo]

I believe that it looks rather like this. View attachment 65832 Though the sponsor, but not colour scheme, has changed.

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ai...T OFWESSEX/_:fb80320bc5ebc6fea58c0001910b1d7a

Gosh did I give away too much information!

My intention in posting this in the 1st place, was not to name and shame, but to highlight a selfish attitude amongst some. Namely, "I am a tough racer, and I dont care if my boat hits yours, just live with it", attitude.

Could this be a picture of the offending yacht?

All I will say is that some "White Knights" are really not "gentlemen", but thugs with corporate logos.

 

[Blue Sunray]

I recently had the unfortunate experience of being berthed next the same vessel, (since this thread), the OP's experience of their manners is not unique.

 

[robertj]

what I can't quite get a hold of here is, apart from the stupidity and mistake of the racing skipper was there any damage to your boat?
If damage occurred, why didn't you insist on insurance details to be exchange therefor enabling you to get redress?
If no damage but his attitude upset you why not contact the sponsors of the offending boat and inform them, not good publicity or publicity they would like to receive.
Who are his sponsors so we can all know?

 

[Sybarite]

In my club marina, many boats are doubled up. If I'm an inside boat, I always fender up both sides, but if I"m an outside boat I don't as the extra foot or so taken up by additional fendering reduces the passage between boats for anyone else coming in (our pontoons ate around 90' long). IF anyone bangs another boat they are expected to "fess up" and pass on insurance details. It's common courtesy, if nothing else. Some boaters aren't gentlemen; not just racers.

No they are not. When I left on my summer trip I left my bow lines and spring as a courtesy for visitors. My new spring line with rubber snubber was gone when I got back.

 

[knuterikt]

No excusing the skippers behaviour ..... but can I ask why you didn't have fenders out? I always have fenders out on both sides when in the marina or at anchor for exactly this reason.

Richard

Hos many fenders should one hang on the outside to prevent a boat ramming at a random spot?
To prevent someone ramming and damaging you need a crew with a loose fender.

 

[JohnDL]

Hos many fenders should one hang on the outside to prevent a boat ramming at a random spot?
To prevent someone ramming and damaging you need a crew with a loose fender.

Most incidents are likely to be glancing blows as a boat comes in at an angle so I put a large fender on the exposed quarter (assuming bows in) and 2 or 3 smaller ones infront of that until just forward of maximum beam. Unfortunately that did not stop someone in a dinghy trying to get to the pontoon between 2 boats scuffing the paint just forward of the front fender

 

[robertj]

so no damage just a bump then?

 

[ShinyShoe]

If he was participating in a race before hitting you and you felt his behaviour is a breach of good manners, a breach of good sportsmanship, or unethical behaviour; or conduct that may bring the sport into disrepute. You can raise a protest (even though you are not a competitor) under rule 69 of the current RRS.

The penalty can be anything from a warning to disqualification from the event and being reported to the RYA, who could then disqualify them from all future racing. In reality - you'd be looking at a warning or a points penalty.

Sometimes the best way to make a racer understand they are out of line is to alter their results.

 

[Walther]

The fact that the other boat is typically used for racing is an unhelpful 'red herring': it wasn't engaged in racing at the time of the incident.

It goes virtually without saying that both racers and cruisers have good and bad / courteous and discourteous skippers. We already have quite enough unnecessary and artificial divisions in the recreational boating community without stirring up more.

what I can't quite get a hold of here is, apart from the stupidity and mistake of the racing skipper was there any damage to your boat?
If damage occurred, why didn't you insist on insurance details to be exchange therefor enabling you to get redress?

These are good questions, and much more constructive than harping on about how the OP could/should have protected himself by putting out additional fenders.

Mooring on the club pontoon recently, we kept getting buzzed by dinghy racers who wanted a few more metres before they tacked, presumably to gain the upper hand, and were willing to risk collision with a 30 foot yacht engaged in coming alongside a pontoon to do it. I was not best pleased.

If I were you, rather than ineffectually cursing the dinghy racers I would complain to the chairman of the race committee. It seems clear that the race course is far too close to the club pontoon.

 

[yoda]

I think a letter to his sponsors would be worthwhile. Their name being dragged through the mud is not what they are putting up good money for.

 

[Walther]

Perhaps. But we should always bear in mind that there are two sides to every story. :ambivalence:

Before anyone takes it upon themselves to grass to his sponsors - whoever they might be - it might first be prudent to speak to the other skipper and obtain his version. All the contact information is readily available on the 'net: telephone number is 07784310558, email is oleg.lebedev@blueyonder.co.uk

I know nothing about Mr. Lebedev, or his reputation. Perhaps he's a sinner, perhaps a saint ... I really have no idea. But he deserves a reasonable opportunity to apologize, or defend himself, before accusations are made to his sponsors or any other third parties.

 

[yoda]

Perhaps. But we should always bear in mind that there are two sides to every story. :ambivalence:

Before anyone takes it upon themselves to grass to his sponsors - whoever they might be - it might first be prudent to speak to the other skipper and obtain his version. All the contact information is readily available on the 'net: telephone number is 07784310558, email is oleg.lebedev@blueyonder.co.uk

I know nothing about Mr. Lebedev, or his reputation. Perhaps he's a sinner, perhaps a saint ... I really have no idea. But he deserves a reasonable opportunity to apologize, or defend himself, before accusations are made to his sponsors or any other third parties.

My reading of the original Post was that the other skipper wasn't prepared to discuss the incident. You may have a point if the skipper is not the owner, it is however for the OP to decide what to do. I do agree with him however that the apparent behaviour is not acceptable and has therefore already reflected upon the sponsor.

Yoda

 

[Uricanejack]

I am not really into name and shame. I usually prefer to be nice. Or a least be though of as being nice.
Once he left the scene of the accident without providing details. I wouldn't play nice. two or three actions. Complain to Marina. Call Police file report inform them he refused to provide details. Call insurance and start claim.
I will get a certain amount of satisfaction of know I will have caused him some grief.