R.Y.A at it again!

[Kukri]

The buggers lasso moorings, though.

There are some things which no decent Englishman will do, and lassoing other people's mooring buoys is in the same category as harassing a lady MP in the street. Harumph!

 

[capnsensible]

I remember when the documentation always said RYA/DoT Yachtmaster. However, as above, that's a rather different issue from being the official governing body for recreational sailing.

.

Sorry, disagree thats not my understanding of it.

When lassooing, is it necessary to shout 'Yippee'?

 

[Sandy]

There are some things which no decent Englishman will do, and lassoing other people's mooring buoys is in the same category as harassing a lady MP in the street. Harumph!

Thankfully, I am Scottish and have lassoed the odd mooring in order to sort something out in a hurry and was unable to pick up the mooring any other way. I shall add that I have never ever harassed anybody in the street.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Sorry, disagree thats not my understanding of it.

Which bit? That it was once (early 90s) called "RYA/DoT Yachmaster" or that nobody has appointed the RYA to oversee recreational sailing in Britain? Which, to be fair to the RYA, is not a claim that they themselves make.

When lassooing, is it necessary to shout 'Yippee'?

Only when you sink some poor sod's mooring.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Thankfully, I am Scottish and have lassoed the odd mooring in order to sort something out in a hurry and was unable to pick up the mooring any other way. I shall add that I have never ever harassed anybody in the street.

How did you know that the mooring in question would take the load?

 

[capnsensible]

Which bit? That it was once (early 90s) called "RYA/DoT Yachmaster" or that nobody has appointed the RYA to oversee recreational sailing in Britain? Which, to be fair to the RYA, is not a claim that they themselves make.
.

See my earlier post regarding the history of YM.

I can confirm though that the YM certificate was most definitely approved by the Department of Transport on the 21 August 1990.

 

[BelleSerene]

Its long irritated me that the RYA effectively force people to join the RYA if they want an ICC by making it cheaper to get an ICC that way than as non members. They are now doing the same with SRC instructors. If you want to be an instructor, you have to join the RYA. In both cases I believe they are operating as a subcontractor for an official body unlike other qualifications which they themselves award.

Doesnt seem right to me - does it to you?

Increasingly I get the impression that the RYA has morphed from an organisation of sailors looking after sailors to an organisation making a living off sailors.

I understand that it might seem self-interested of them, but I can’t come to that conclusion.

The state would charge for the licence, just as other states do or as the state charges you for a driving licence or passport.

The state delegates that function to the RYA, which not unreasonably charges for it. No problem so far.

The RYA also has membership. The annual membership fee happens to be a bit less than the ICC renewal fee.

The RYA decides that as one of its services to members it’ll provide the service for nothing to members, as it provides other normally-charged services free to its members.

It also allows non- members to join up and immediately benefit from that otherwise-charged service for free. No reason why it should have to - you can’t vote in a political party that you’ve just joined, or claim on an insurance policy that you joined already knowing of the claim, for example.

Nope: nothing fishy there IMHO.

 

[JumbleDuck]

See my earlier post regarding the history of YM.

I can confirm though that the YM certificate was most definitely approved by the Department of Transport on the 21 August 1990.

We agree, then! I presume that the actual word "Yachtmaster" was coined by the RYA, since they have it registered as a trademark (as do Survitec, Rolez, ZF and Waterlines in different categories).

 

[alant]

I have come in from the cold.

After owning and cruising in my own boats since 1970, I have just joined the RYA.

The application form did ask if I was joining to get an ICC, to which the honest answer is, "No, but I shall be applying for one in due course ."

The real reason is that having hit retirement age, after messing about in thirtysomething-feet boats for three decades and more, with no qualifications other than a Restricted VHF Certificate, which I first acquired when I needed Morse for it , I bought a significantly bigger boat; one that is capable of doing real damage if mis-handled, so I thought I would put myself through all the relevant courses, on the grounds that I haven't had almost fifty years of experience; I've had about five years of experience. with the last three repeated, many times, on the same two boats, with the same kit.

And I find, from sailing with others who have learned the RYA way of doing things that they are very often doing things in a better way than I had learned and continued to use, even silly little things like "OXO".

What, is silly about "oxo"?

 

[capnsensible]

Yay.

But I think the Board of Trade still get the 'thought of it first' badge.

I recall the RYA and trademark biz happening around the time of IYT breaking away oh, 15 ish years ago?

 

[dom]

Which bit? That it was once (early 90s) called "RYA/DoT Yachmaster" or that nobody has appointed the RYA to oversee recreational sailing in Britain? Which, to be fair to the RYA, is not a claim that they themselves make.

You're right; nobody did! That said the RYA is only one step away from an overseeing role in that it is the Government's first - and mostly definitive - port of call on all matters to do with recreational boating.

And to be fair the RYA does a reasonably good job in balancing the needs of the various interest groups in the advice they give.

 

[Kurrawong_Kid]

No. It’s a semiautonomous Government quango! Doing the government’s job for it and charging us for doing it!

 

[JumbleDuck]

What, is silly about "oxo"?

I think he meant "minor" rather than "ridiculous". I train people out of it because although the cleats on my boat are decent size, they can't take OOXXOO and the final OOs generally fall off. Locking turns rool OK.

I recall the RYA and trademark biz happening around the time of IYT breaking away oh, 15 ish years ago?

I think you're right. The trademarks aren't very old.

You're right; nobody did!

Except ...

I dont see any issue here. The state has delegated the issue of ICC's to the RYA as the official governing body of the sport. RYA choose to discount the cost to paid up members. Seems fair to me. No different to any Club arranging discounts for its members.

 

[dom]

JD, that "official governing body of the sport" bit is news to me. Is this a personal opinion of Old Harry, or a matter of public record?

It is, however, true that the Government has authorised the RYA to issue ICCs on its behalf.

 

[dom]

What, is silly about "oxo"?

Agree, "silly" is the wrong word, how about "utterly daft"?

Unless one is talking about heavy ship lines of course.

 

[JumbleDuck]

JD, that "official governing body of the sport" bit is news to me. Is this a personal opinion of Old Harry, or a matter of public record?

I wouldn't want to single out Old Harry - he's far from alone. For example, a Google on "RYA governng body" throws up Wikipedia

or Marine Industry News

while the RYA itself is careful to use the unexceptionable

It is, however, true that the Government has authorised the RYA to issue ICCs on its behalf.

The RYA always has an eye on a quick buck. They used to issue SSRs too. If licensing every becomes compulsory I expect they bid for that job as well.

Agree, "silly" is the wrong word, how about "utterly daft"?

Unless one is talking about heavy ship lines of course.

It seems to work OK as long as the ropes are undersized or the cleats are oversized. Messy, but easy for newbies to remember.

 

[Sandy]

How did you know that the mooring in question would take the load?

Because they are regularly used by much heavier boats than 5 tonne boat.

P.S. Locking turns are banned on my boat. If I find a locking turn the fine is a bottle of Highland Park 12 year old, two and it is a bottle of their 18 year old. I'm not that keen on their 18 year old and just now and then need to try it again.

 

[dom]

I wouldn't want to single out Old Harry - he's far from alone. For example, a Google on "RYA governng body" throws up Wikipedia

or Marine Industry News

while the RYA itself is careful to use the unexceptionable

The RYA always has an eye on a quick buck. They used to issue SSRs too. If licensing every becomes compulsory I expect they bid for that job as well.

That's about it: the RYA is the largest recreational boating body by far which has certain powers of certificate issuance vested to it. As you however imply it has zero power to unilaterally implement, or enforce any rules outside these narrow spheres.

As to it having an eye for a quick buck: setting the cost of an ICC equal to an annual membership was of course done in the hope of attracting sticky DD memberships as opposed to transient one offs. Mind you, nothing compared to the power grab it made in the run-up to the 2012 Olympics.

Funny how such organisations display an irrepressible Darwinian urge to multiply: PR blurb talking about 'record membership', 'record cash in the bank', 'record certificates issued', etc.

 

[dom]

Because they are regularly used by much heavier boats than 5 tonne boat.

P.S. Locking turns are banned on my boat. If I find a locking turn the fine is a bottle of Highland Park 12 year old, two and it is a bottle of their 18 year old. I'm not that keen on their 18 year old and just now and then need to try it again.

Large hawsers, often between two bollards, are a different ball game entirely.

But why on earth ban locking turns

 

[JumbleDuck]

Because they are regularly used by much heavier boats than 5 tonne boat.

Of course it's the riser-buoy connection strength which matters, but if you are really sure about that, why not. The issue arise when newly certificated RYA pupils think it's OK on any mooring, which it certainly is not.

As to it having an eye for a quick buck: setting the cost of an ICC equal to an annual membership was of course done in the hope of attracting sticky DD memberships as opposed to transient one offs. Mind you, nothing compared to the power grab it made in the run-up to the 2012 Olympics.

Funny how such organisations display an irrepressible Darwinian urge to multiply: PR blurb talking about 'record membership', 'record cash in the bank', 'record certificates issued', etc.

I left them when they stopped opposing the replacement of traditional harbours and anchorages with commercial marinas. Curiously, that change of position occurred just after they accept money from a well down marina development plc. What an odd coincidence.