R.Y.A at it again!

[Birdseye]

Its long irritated me that the RYA effectively force people to join the RYA if they want an ICC by making it cheaper to get an ICC that way than as non members. They are now doing the same with SRC instructors. If you want to be an instructor, you have to join the RYA. In both cases I believe they are operating as a subcontractor for an official body unlike other qualifications which they themselves award.

Doesnt seem right to me - does it to you?

Increasingly I get the impression that the RYA has morphed from an organisation of sailors looking after sailors to an organisation making a living off sailors.

 

[johnalison]

I don't know about the SRC but as an RYA member myself I don't see why I should pay for ICC certificates for non-members.

 

[capnsensible]

Long been the case for YM Instructors, Cruising Instructors and Shorebased Instructors. Catching up with the rest now.

If you look back on sites like this over the years, you will read lots of posts knocking the RYA, its not worth it, its only a bit of paper, the instructor I saw in the marina last week did this or that, yadda yadda.

The people who run the RYA arent daft. Ive met a lot of them for professional reasons and they pay attention to this stuff. As they should.

All the courses have been scrutinised and massively improved. The Instructor standard has risen greatly. The standards of Practical Exams at YMO and above are much harder.

So having listened to complaints and addressed them, they still remain in a bit of a no win situation.

Of course I have a vested interest, both my wife and I are Instructors at things within the Scheme. And Ive not held back in the past with my views within and have been nicely respected for it. Of course, nothing is perfect.

But its worth remembering, I think, from watching other sail training around the planet, the RYA are as good as it gets. But thats never an excuse to sit back!

 

[[3889]]

Of course I have a vested interest, both my wife and I are Instructors at things within the Scheme. And Ive not held back in the past with my views within and have been nicely respected for it. Of course, nothing is perfect.

But its worth remembering, I think, from watching other sail training around the planet, the RYA are as good as it gets. But thats never an excuse to sit back!

Two separate issues really. I'm also an RYA instructor and have delivered, and of course received, training in many different organisations outside of sailing. The RYA is up there with the best, I believe.
However, Birdseye's complaint is wholly justified. The ICC is a legal requirement in many cases and it is inappropriate for the RYA to be the sole issuing authority (for sail boats) and use that monopoly as a device to leverage its membership. No different, in principle, to Ryanair having responsibility for issuing passports then offering its customers a discount.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I don't know about the SRC but as an RYA member myself I don't see why I should pay for ICC certificates for non-members.

But you're OK with non-members subsidising your ICC?

 

[sailorman]

But you're OK with non-members subsidising your ICC?

I have been a member since 1974, what is an ICC & do i need one

 

[capnsensible]

Well the bottom line is, its a voluntary thing to join the RYA. So for the same price, you can be issued with an ICC or be a member of the RYA for a year and be issued with an ICC. Personal choice.

Now as you know, there are discount vouchers for people to take advantage of.......generally the succesful award of a practical course completion certificate. Who doesnt like a discount?? But no one is forced for that.

Unlike Instructors who are. But Im sure from all sorts of Pro Organisations (Doctors, Chartered Accountants, Gerbil breeders??) to Trade Unions, there are so many trades and professions that being a member of some kind of 'body' is a requirement to operate.

So I wound my neck in on that one. Eventually!

 

[capnsensible]

I have been a member since 1974, what is an ICC & do i need one

https://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge-advice/boating-abroad/icc/Pages/hub.aspx

Up to you. :encouragement:

I first joined thr RYA as a sprog in 1971 when the office was in Woking-Not-On-The-Sea.

 

[Heckler]

Its long irritated me that the RYA effectively force people to join the RYA if they want an ICC by making it cheaper to get an ICC that way than as non members. They are now doing the same with SRC instructors. If you want to be an instructor, you have to join the RYA. In both cases I believe they are operating as a subcontractor for an official body unlike other qualifications which they themselves award.

Doesnt seem right to me - does it to you?

Increasingly I get the impression that the RYA has morphed from an organisation of sailors looking after sailors to an organisation making a living off sailors.

I used to cast a jaundiced eye on them but have slowly come around. My free ICC is worth it as is the legal advice at the end of a phone, but most important, 15% off my Albufeira Marina fees is well well worth it!

 

[capnsensible]

15% off my Albufeira Marina fees is well well worth it!

Yay, even just for the overnighters.......but you know that my savings will have gone in the till at Sharkeys!

 

[Praxinoscope]

I have been a member since 1974, what is an ICC & do i need one

Glad you asked that, I had to look it up on the RYA website and I’ve been a member for about the same time.

 

[capnsensible]

Try wikipedia too.


The ICC is a product of the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe Inland Water Committee (UN ECE IWC) Resolution 40 (hereafter called Resolution 40).[1] This states that the ICC may be issued by a government of one state to its nationals and residents who may be on the waters of a foreign state, on condition that both accept the requirements and conditions set out in Resolution 40.

Governments may appoint competent authorities to issue ICC on their behalf. Globally International Yacht Training Worldwide (IYT) has been delegated such authority by both Ireland and the UK, and the Royal Yachting Association (RYA)[2] and the British Sub-Aqua Club (BSAC) are both authorized by the UK.

The ICC provides documentary assurance from one government to another that the holder meets the levels of competence laid down in Resolution 40. However, the acceptance of Resolution 40 is often caveated.

Theres more.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Certificate_of_Competence

Happy reading.......

 

[IanR]

Its long irritated me that the RYA effectively force people to join the RYA if they want an ICC by making it cheaper to get an ICC that way than as non members. They are now doing the same with SRC instructors. If you want to be an instructor, you have to join the RYA. In both cases I believe they are operating as a subcontractor for an official body unlike other qualifications which they themselves award.

Doesnt seem right to me - does it to you?

Increasingly I get the impression that the RYA has morphed from an organisation of sailors looking after sailors to an organisation making a living off sailors.

Its the organisation governing training on behalf of Ofcom, you want to train you need to be a member, its the same for all instructors. How else would the operation be supervised?

 

[Resolution]

Its long irritated me that the RYA effectively encourage people to join the RYA if they want an ICC by making it cheaper to get an ICC that way than as non members.

Changed your wording slightly. Personally I cannot see anything wrong with their approach on ICCs and I find it hard to see how any rational person could object to it. What am I missing?
Peter

 

[laika]

Of course I have a vested interest, both my wife and I are Instructors

As an instructor abroad have you ever had you ever been asked to show qualifications, shown them your YMI ticket, had it turned down but your ICC accepted? Or has anyone had such an experience?

I've been an RYA member for a while but have always felt that an ICC would be a bit of a waste of paper with better RYA docs to show someone. Am I over-optimistic (from experience rather than "theory")?

 

[capnsensible]

Yeah, once in Croatia some years ago. That was before photos on YMI. Fair one I suppose.

Not many places ask for a skippers ticket, more interested in Insurance.

However, in a few years of transiting around, my take is that should an accident happen and even if its not your fault, no kinda qualification to show to uniformed whoever is not going to make your day get any better!

 

[ctva]

As far as I know, the RYA are one of the last to insist that instructors who are qualified in any of the disciplines covered are instructors. I am not sure at what level the change is but at the top end of Trainers and Examiners who teach instructors, it is now a requirement to be a member to maintain your appointment. At the bottom, basic instructors only have to be a member to qualify and then when they revalidate at 5 years but not in between surprisingly.

I see no issue with being a member of the governing body as a trainer to work professionally.

As to the ICC, no one is forcing anyone to join. The price for an ICC is x, just pay as you do for a passport, driving license, or gym membership.

 

[laika]

Yeah, once in Croatia some years ago. That was before photos on YMI. Fair one I suppose.

Bad choice of example on my part because I suppose YMI is technically an instructor qualification rather than a sailing qualification. Croatia formally accepts RYA certs of Day Skipper and above but YMI is not listed. But you get the idea .

I suppose an ICC can't harm but I feel guilty about wasting the RYA's postage if it's of no practical value given a YM certificate (with photo

 

[Heckler]

Yay, even just for the overnighters.......but you know that my savings will have gone in the till at Sharkeys!

Out on Ryanair tomoz, Sharkeys on Wednesday! However, Culatra has spoilt us with the 1 euro for a beer, glass of very palatable wine or a coffee,

 

[LittleSister]

As to the ICC, no one is forcing anyone to join. The price for an ICC is x, just pay as you do for a passport, driving license, or gym membership.

Uncanny how the cost of an ICC works out exactly the same as RYA membership, though.