Questions abount a big journey :)

[georgi]

Hi,

my name is Georgi, I am a guy from a country called Bulgaria. I hope this is the right place to post my plan and get some help from you professional guys.

Every since i was a little kid I had a dream - to explore parts of North America and all of South America by sea with a boat. To keep the long story short I will first post you the basics of my plan, and later get into the details.

Taking a plane to South America and then rent a yacht will be to easy. I want to cross the Atlantic Ocean with a yacht. I think the best starting point would be DAKAR in West-Africa as a starting point and from there get to CAYENNE in French Guiana.

From there I would travel north to Venezuela, Cuba, Bahamas etc. After the journey is over I would travel back to DAKAR and from there to Europe.

So, I know that idea sounds crazy for a man, who had never been more then 3 days on a boat but I want to do it.

I have almost 16 months to prepare for that journey. I won't be alone on that trip, 3 friends have agreed to join me. We will taking all sort of training, survival etc. in case anything goes wrong.

Since I am still in the beginning, I have some "funny questions":

1. I can hire an experienced captain for the transatlantic part - but what boat, yacht will i need? It's logical that e 15 feet boat is not enough.

2. Depending on the boat, how many days will we travel in the open sea (average) ?

3. What can go wrong? What should I be prepared for?

4. My budged so far is around 150.000 USD - Will it be enough to buy all the necessary things e.g. boat, taxes, insurances, food, fuel, other supply etc.?

Some advice from you will be greatly appreciated.

Greetings from Bulgaria,

Georgi Grancharov

 

[georgi]

Ahm, isn't that the right setion to post that kind of questions?

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I think the lack of replies is because of the sheer scale of what you are asking, and your lack of preparation. If you need to ask these questions, then you're not ready to even think about such a trip.

What I think most of us would do is advise you to try sailing; learn the ropes, perhaps do some courses such as those leading to Royal Yachting Association qualifications. That will give you a much better idea of your capabilities, and the kinds of vessel you would be happy to try such a trip with.

Your budget is definitely on the low side, if it is to include buying a capable yacht for the passage - 150,000 US dollars is about £100,000 (by the way, your use of the continental "." to separate thousands will have confused many here - in the UK the "." is only used as the decimal point separator, so it looks like your budget is $150!). Anyway, you could easily spend all of that on buying a yacht, never mind equipping it and having money for other things.

What kind of yacht - well, Atlantic passages have been made with almost anything from about 12 feet long upwards, and with an enormous range of rigs and hull types. I suppose 40 foot would be a typical length for Atlantic crossing. I would happily set out in my own 31 foot yacht, though. What is right or best will be entirely a matter of personal preference and training - for example, many people here would suggest a multi-hull; that would not be suitable for me because I have no experience of handling multi-hulls, being a sailor of mono-hulls.

Starting point - well, I guess you could start from Dakar, but why bother? You'd be crossing the Atlantic at the worst point; persistent light and variable winds with occasional very nasty thunderstorms. The usual route from Europe is to sail south to the Azores, then west to the Caribbean. That gives you consistent Trade Winds all the way, and carries the oceanic currents as well. It is the old sailing ship trade route.

Good luck!

 

[bilbobaggins]

Much of what Antarctic Pilot has written is sound. However, I certainly wouldn't discourage you from thinking about such a trip. It's your dream, and you're entitled to it.

Actually accomplishing such a major personal project will require a lot more than dreams; the experience needed to make many good judgments, and the skills needed to make your decisions happen, are not learned overnight. Those who think so are seriously misguided, and most of them swiftly come to grief. One problem is that you are considering taking three others with you, who would be dependant on your skills and your judgements for their lives.....

If it is essential that you sail as master of your own boat, might I suggest you buy a boat from one of the charter companies ( they all sell on their charter boats after several years, and buy new, so there are sometimes some real bargains to be had - provided your judgement of a sound boat is good ) based in the Mediterranean - perhaps Croatia, Greece or Turkey? You could then refit and improve that boat, with help from your friends, and sail it along the Mediterranean, out to the Canary Isles, and once there decide where to go next. By then you should have enough experience to make the necessary decisions....

If it is not essential that you sail as master of your own boat, at first, then let me suggest you do some sailing courses to learn some useful and essential skills, then enrol with one or two of the yacht delivery companies - and cross the Atlantic as a crew member. Let someone else, who is deeply experienced and qualified, make the decisions that keep the boat and all her crew safe and well - and learn from that individual.

Once arrived in the Caribbean, you should then have acquired enough experience to know what to buy and why, and still have almost all your savings available for the purchase of a boat there.

Best wishes.

 

[jonjo]

Ahm, isn't that the right setion to post that kind of questions?

No this is the right section or maybe the LiveAboard forum.

You are not getting many replies because your question is too big, the full answer requires writing a whole book, in fact there are some titles "Sell Up & Sail" springs to mind but it could be getting dated now.

You also need to remember this forum has a predominately anglo-saxon membership, so passage planning in the French sailing zone is not our specialty.

With a $150k I would start making plans. I would not spend spend large amounts of money having just arrived in foreign parts. Buy in the med, build up experience getting to your translatlantic departure point by which time you won't need the pro captain.

 

[georgi]

AntarcticPilot, bilbobaggins and jonjo - thanks for your inputs

I was sure that that wouldn't be the easiest dream to achieve. This forum is just my theoretical starting point to my journey.

First thing I thought of - I don't want to sail but rather use a motor yacht. Is that even a wise idea? Or would be sailing better? I know that sailing would cost me a lot less of money, but I don't like the idea "floating" in the Atlantic and depending on the weather.

That's why I picked Dakar as a starting point - Is it still better to start from the Azores even if I have a motor yacht? Or are there some combined versions?

I want to take some courses this summer, depending on what you think would be the best. So if you say sailing would be better I will attend a sailing course and start practicing, if not I will try get experience on a motor yacht.

Lets say that there are no people here in Bulgaria who can tell you what to do and where to start. That's the reason I choose this board. I just need some advise, how to start "from scratch" from you, because I can't ask anyone local - yachting is just in the beginning here in Bulgaria, and most people would just laugh at me just because of my dream.

I got yesterday all kinds of books I could find about sailing, open waters, emergency rules, diving etc and I am starting go get used to the specific language as well as to the knowledge I would need to do it.

My next step (correct me if I am wrong) would be finding some course do learn the practical knowledge. What "course" should I take? Sailing?

Again, thanks for your help to an newbie I will reward this with a lot of pictures as soon as I get my dream come true )

Greetings,

George

 

[jonjo]

First thing I thought of - I don't want to sail but rather use a motor yacht. Is that even a wise idea? Or would be sailing better?

Only millionaires can afford to cross oceans in motor boats.

That's why I picked Dakar as a starting point - Is it still better to start from the Azores even if I have a motor yacht?

Your best staring point is Turkey or Finland. You need the experience of the intermediate trip before you face 3000 miles of ocean.

I want to take some courses this summer, depending on what you think would be the best.

Turn off your computer, buy a eurorail pass and go and spend a month learning the art of independent travel. You can check out loads of boats on your way.

Just now you don't need technique books on storm survival, find something that deals with the ethos, financial and physcological side of long distance sailing.

 

[georgi]

Only millionaires can afford to cross oceans in motor boats.

Can you give me an average example what would would be the cost for let's say 1000 nautical miles on an average motor yacht?
The only info I could find on google is that 1 nm = 5 USD. So a trip from the Azores to for example Cuba would cost around 12k USD, witch is what I had expected more or less.

Of course - is that information right?

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Can you give me an average example what would would be the cost for let's say 1000 nautical miles on an average motor yacht?

Depends on a lot of factors, but fuel STORAGE is the problem. I'm not a motor boat person, but fuel consumptions run at a few miles per gallon - you usually reckon gallons per hour of running. My (very low consumption by motor boat standards) sailing yacht can do 6 knots under engine, at about half a gallon an hour, under flat water conditions. So, I do 12 miles per gallon. If I go half a knot faster, my fuel consumption will probably double. Go faster - and most motor boats do - and you get much worse fuel consumption values. A friend (jokingly) goes "1 gallon...2gallon....3 gallon..." when watching a typical motor boat going past him - and he isn't far wrong! But even under my very light consumption figures, 1000 miles would use over 80 gallons of fuel; and any head-wind or waves would make that figure worse - perhaps double the fuel use. Most motor boats can't store enough fuel for a lengthy passage; anything less than the size of a millionaire's yacht simply won't have the tankage for an ocean crossing. Fuel typically (in the UK) costs about 80 or 90 p per litre; a litre is 0.22 of a gallon.

You would also have to think very hard about the type of vessel you bought. Most mass-market motor boats have planing hulls, which are fine for the sort of use they get in European coastal waters. They travel fast, and getting them on the plane means they are more fuel efficient. But you aren't going to plane across the Atlantic unless you've got the budget of Sir Richard Branson, and a planing hull run at displacement speeds will be very inefficient in its use of fuel - and probably extremely uncomfortable, if not positively unsafe.

You also have to consider the effects of engine breakdown, and the difficulty of carrying out repairs mid-Atlantic. There is no rescue service out there!

For people working at the sort of budget you've stated, trans-Atlantic passages mean sailing; motoring probably isn't an option at your budget.

 

[Lee_Shaw]

It isn't practical to motor across the Atlantic on your budget.

The most practical thing to do would be to fly over and buy one of the many bargain sailboats that have been abandoned that side of the Atlantic by the many other people who had the same dream as you but over-extended themselves with difficult Atlantic crossings and/or boats far too large for them.

 

[bilbobaggins]

I'm coming round to the view that one of the better solutions might be for you to buy a beautiful traditional English wooden motor-sailor yacht. Then you would have the best of both worlds - power and sail....

Reliability, economy, and beautiful varnished wood for passers-by to admire as you sip your evening Gin and Tonic, wearing your yachting 'whites' in Caribbean harbours. You could probably sell the boat, when you'd had your fill of globe-trotting, for more than you paid for it. Traditional designs and craftmanship in wood are much sought-after by merchant princes so they can attend international yachting events, such as 'La Nioulargue' in October this year.

Should it be of any help to you, I happen to know of just such a boat. It has been lovingly cared for by the same family for generations, and is at present the centre of attraction at a gathering of similar boats in Brittany, in the north of France. I know the owner, a 'gentleman of the old school' now close to retirement, who might be persuaded to part with her for a modest sum.

He is something of a writer by profession, and may be persuaded to help you write and market your stories and accounts of your travels to leading yachting magazines such as Practical Boat Owner and Sailing Today. I also know of one or two deeply-experienced sea-teachers - or instructors - who could also be approached to help you learn what goes where and why, once they have returned next week from racing their yachts in the famous Fastnet Race.

There are even esteemed members of this forum who, for a small consideration, might be persuaded to act as your sailing agent, marine attorney and business managers, in the event of you finding a need for such services. You only need to let me have your email address, and I will pass on your requirements to those best experienced in such work.

One small question for you, before I go. Do you happen to know of any history of trolls in the mountains of Bulgaria.....?

 

[Dyflin]

I hear there's good "fishing" in Bulgaria in the summer?

 

[peter radclyffe]

it may help if you all live in one room or small apartment together for i week or month, just to know you really are good friends

 

[georgi]

--

Thank's for that info. I didn't know, that this would be such a big issue about the fuel storage. i looked now a little bit deeper on some motor-boats I "flirted with" and you are right. The tanks wouldn't be enough to make 2000nm without a stop.

Having that as a fact brings me to the next question: Are there any sailboats witch have a motor, f.e. a kind of "combined yacht"? For example if the waves are high or there is no wind I put the motor on - if not I just sail? Yeah, another newbie question I know that most sailboats have a motor, but as far as I know it's only for manouvers in harbours etc?

So now that I know more or less what kind of "engine" I need (obviosly - wind) can we be a little more specific about the boat? Best case scenario would be for me to practise for the journey on my own boat, so I prefer to buy the boat and then take lessons from experienced people on it, rather then take lessons on a rental.

Again, thanks for your input

 

[georgi]

I hear there's good "fishing" in Bulgaria in the summer?

The word fishing in "" let me assume, that you are not talking about fishing, and i won't get into that.

 

[georgi]

You only need to let me have your email address, and I will pass on your requirements to those best experienced in such work.

PM me and I will get in touch with you.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Thank's for that info. I didn't know, that this would be such a big issue about the fuel storage. i looked now a little bit deeper on some motor-boats I "flirted with" and you are right. The tanks wouldn't be enough to make 2000nm without a stop.

Having that as a fact brings me to the next question: Are there any sailboats witch have a motor, f.e. a kind of "combined yacht"? For example if the waves are high or there is no wind I put the motor on - if not I just sail? Yeah, another newbie question I know that most sailboats have a motor, but as far as I know it's only for manouvers in harbours etc?

So now that I know more or less what kind of "engine" I need (obviosly - wind) can we be a little more specific about the boat? Best case scenario would be for me to practise for the journey on my own boat, so I prefer to buy the boat and then take lessons from experienced people on it, rather then take lessons on a rental.

Again, thanks for your input

Pretty well all sailing vessels have an auxiliary engine; they are often (usually?) diesels and will run happily for many hours on end.

In the ocean the "no wind" scenario won't happen if you plan your route properly. The "high waves" scenario is much safer under sail than under motor - sails steady a boat so she rides the waves better.

Seriously, spend some time sailing. Then you will be in a position to realistically assess the trip you're thinking of.

 

[l'escargot]

Georgi, with your good grasp of English and use of smilies I think DAKAR would be a good starting point.