Question about Dehler 36 cws

[Tomaret]

On electrics, the systems seem fine. But the nav system onboard had a centralised box. When it went everything went and I dumped it. I only have depth now - I am not an instrument kind of man. I think any nav systems over 7 years old are probably past it.

That rudder stock is very interesting. Hard to believe it could happen like that. The firm in Germany who handle dehler spares does rudders but no price on their website.

Sad to see such a fine design of boat being passed over, but there's always another fish.

But what would we spend money on if we didn't have boats?

Nav systems either work or they don’t, and whilst they do what they were designed to do, why are they past it?

The rudder stock problem is well known on Dehler 36s and can usually repaired once - the Rustler yard in Falmouth did mine when I bought my 36CWS as a temporary repair whilst the vendors sourced a new rudder which I eventually fitted 6 years later. From memory, in 2016 a new rudder from Marina Team, the Dehler parts specialists, was about £2000.

 

[dgadee]

I am sure the boat could be made into a very good serviceable boat but at a cost especially if there are deck and engine issues. One of the problems seems to be location and Tranona's post #12 indicates the reason. The boat assuming the worst needs to be bought very cheaply and I somehow doubt that the owner of a CWS 36 is going to let it go for £20K or less. If the OP still fancies it then the only answer is a comprehensive survey by a good recommended surveyor and then cost out what needs to be done and what can wait and see if there is a deal to be done but that means spending upwards of £500 with no guarantee that you will be able to buy the boat within budget.

Yes, can't see it going at that price.

It is a 30 year old boat. You have to accept that it is not in a new condition. But if it had a soft deck I would not be interested myself.

I put a new engine into mine before I left home and did other work, too. Easier and cheaper to do work then than abroad.

 

[dgadee]

Nav systems either work or they don’t, and whilst they do what they were designed to do, why are they past it?

Harsh environment, I suppose. A home PC usually had a limited life, too, and is not partly at the top of the mast.

 

[Tranona]

That rudder stock is very interesting. Hard to believe it could happen like that. The firm in Germany who handle dehler spares does rudders but no price on their website.

Not unknown, and not specific to Dehler. Crevice corrosion is potentially there when stainless is in damp oxygen starved conditions such as in the area of bearings and seals. The seized bearing on this boat is possibly caused by corrosion but impossible to tell until it comes out.

There is an account in this month's YM of a stainless rudder stock breaking resulting in loss of rudder on a siling school boat. A sister ship was checked and also had corrosion.

 

[doris]

I have seen this Dehler 36 1991 which could be a real bargain….but there are a few things to consider.
- The owner has left her unused on dry dock for 6 or 7 years.
- I haven’t started the engine yet…
- The insides look in good order but it’s obviously been taking in some water from the decks in one of the cabins by the look of it.

- the rudder is down and I can see a tiny bit of corrosion around the stock just at the top of get blade. It’s obvious that the bearings need doing but the stock shouldn’t be corroded like that.
- the boat looks a bit tired on the outside.
- When I walk around the decks i noticed a slight creaking noise on a couple of spots around the shrouds. Also noticed a very slight bounciness and flexing of the bow section just above the fore peak cabin.

The last point worries me as on my existing boat (from 1979) there is absolutely no a hint of noise or flexing anywhere on the boat either while walking or sailing.

I could potentially buy it for around £25k as the owner doesn’t know what to do with her. All things considered with some time and money I could potentially upgrade from my 33 footer which I had for 15 years to a Dehler 36
that I can use to venture further. I love the Dehlers but can’t afford to spend 50k on one yet.

What’s people’s opinions on this particular boat? Ia worth the hassle or should I steer away from it.
Thanks

I am always surprised at the extent to which owners of old, tired boats that have been sitting on the hard or working their socks off in schools/charter fleets think still have value. In industry one writes off capital equipment over, say, 7 years whereupon it’s deemed worthless.
To my mind this boat is worth zip. The owner should accept pennies for it and move on. To make it reliable and sound will cost upwards of £50k, the problems that crawl out of the nooks and crannies will be never ending.
Offer the guy £5k if you like them ring him next year and drop the offer to 3. Eventually owners of old boats will get charged for environmentally disposing of them, and that will be brutal.

 

[dgadee]

I am always surprised at the extent to which owners of old, tired boats that have been sitting on the hard or working their socks off in schools/charter fleets think still have value. In industry one writes off capital equipment over, say, 7 years whereupon it’s deemed worthless.
To my mind this boat is worth zip. The owner should accept pennies for it and move on. To make it reliable and sound will cost upwards of £50k, the problems that crawl out of the nooks and crannies will be never ending.
Offer the guy £5k if you like them ring him next year and drop the offer to 3. Eventually owners of old boats will get charged for environmentally disposing of them, and that will be brutal.

How do you get to £50k?

Industry is different. Boats are often upgraded over their life. I presume a JCB is not.

I did offer 50% of asking price once but never got a response. Boat was ashore and still for sale 3 years later - probably costing more than the 50%.

 

[dgadee]

Ps, Doris - on another thread - you said you were staggered by the price of new boats. That's why a Dehler needing work is not going to sell at £5k.

 

[Tranona]

How do you get to £50k?

Industry is different. Boats are often upgraded over their life. I presume a JCB is not.

I did offer 50% of asking price once but never got a response. Boat was ashore and still for sale 3 years later - probably costing more than the 50%.

Very easy to get to £50k even without lots of labour. Remember prices of bits are related to today's new boat costs (£350k for a new equivalent). This is boat has been abandoned for at least 6 years in a harsh environment, leaks, has potential deck problems and who knows what condition the standing and running rigging, sails and canvas work are in. Before you even start looking at the engine and systems. This is very different from a similar boat that is in use, even if a bit tired which you can see in use and assess a replacement and upgrade schedule.

Just some simple figures. Batteries £1k, rigging £5k, running rigging £1k, Sails £6k, sprayhood and bimini £5k, engine £15k. I have just spent £40k on a 31' boat that was working, doing much of the labour intensive work such as electrics and interior refitting myself.

It also depends on what sort of end result you want. If you are happy with an ongoing project, capable of use but needs constant repairs and up grading then you can spread that cost, but even then if you keep records of expenditure over, say, 5 years would not be surprised to find £50k on this size and type of boat. With an abandoned boat, though you just don't have that option. If you are really confident and have the time it is possible to spend less, but it is an enormous commitment.

As to the value of the boat, it is clearly not worth the £25k because nobody has bought it. The potential market is is primarily non locals and few are prepared to take on such a project for all the reasons mentioned in earlier posts.

 

[doris]

How do you get to £50k?

Industry is different. Boats are often upgraded over their life. I presume a JCB is not.

I did offer 50% of asking price once but never got a response. Boat was ashore and still for sale 3 years later - probably costing more than

This boat has been sitting on the hard for 6/7years.
Electrics and electronics will all need to be removed and replaced. There’s an outside chance that the engine will be ok but only if it was stored properly but otherwise it will have any amount of internal problems even if it does get going. Gearbox has a better chance
All standing and running rigging will need replacing.
Ditto sails, fridge, cooker, gas lines.
What state will the inside of the winches be in?
Rudder has been discussed already, v expensive to replace but essential to do so.
Spray hood, Bimini silly expensive nowadays.
The list is endless and frightening, IMHO, always way cheaper to buy a boat in commission and working.

 

[doris]

Ps, Doris - on another thread - you said you were staggered by the price of new boats. That's why a Dehler needing work is not going to sell at £5k.

Wait until environmental disposal costs start appearing. Keeping a boat unused on the hard should be seriously frowned upon.

 

[tchierici]

This boat has been sitting on the hard for 6/7years.
Electrics and electronics will all need to be removed and replaced. There’s an outside chance that the engine will be ok but only if it was stored properly but otherwise it will have any amount of internal problems even if it does get going. Gearbox has a better chance
All standing and running rigging will need replacing.
Ditto sails, fridge, cooker, gas lines.
What state will the inside of the winches be in?
Rudder has been discussed already, v expensive to replace but essential to do so.
Spray hood, Bimini silly expensive nowadays.
The list is endless and frightening, IMHO, always way cheaper to buy a boat in commission and working.

From my experience of Greek prices here is my estimate:

-Rudder £2k
-New engine £10k (I have installed my 3ym20 with saildrive for £9 including installation..)
-Sails to be inspected worst case £3k
-Standing rigging looks fine to me worst case £2k
- Running rigging £1k
-delamination no more than £1k assuming the entire deck is not completely shot which is unlikely. It's not actually a big deal to repair delaminated balsa core, just a question of grind off, epoxy and ply then glass it back on.
- electronics (including new autopilot) I don't need anything fancy so probably £1.5k
- interior looks fine but some cosmetics needed, no more than £500
- sprayhood and bimini £3k

Total £24k, lets round it to £25k.
A handful of jobs (ie. rudder, engine, sails and rigging) done asap and the rest can be done bit by bit over time

I make an offer of £5k, best case he says yes, worst case he refuses, so I make a counter offer of £10k take it or leave it and walk away. So with £30k I have a great little boat for life that's gonna take me to Fiji and Galapagos in a few years time.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Go for it and let us know how you get on with the costs especially the deck.

 

[dgadee]

I went through that process (new sails first - gave old ones away to a 36cws) but spent nowhere near £50k. I put in a new Yanmar engine (£5k in total including sale of old one). New prop (£800). Hydrovane added 2nd hand (£2k). New wheelpilot (£1200 - rubbish). New heater (£2k before cheap versions appeared.) New depth sounder. Repair of wheel pedestal (cost of a weld and bearings). Repair of electric winch gearbox (£400?). New cushion covers (£500).

Still trying to get someone to make a new sprayhood. Maybe £1200 in Preveza if quote accurate.

I may do ss rigging some time, but I am not an every 10 year man.

Seacocks replaced (£400?).

Nav is RPi. An iPad took me from Lymington to Belfast via Orkney.

I must be very careful with money.

 

[dgadee]

Forgot thst I put in an electric windlass and new batteries £1500 or so? Like lots of old bits the manual windlass went on eBay.

Most spent 10 years ago, of course, but nowhere near £50k.

 

[Tranona]

Many of those prices quoted are way out of date - even if only 2-3 years old. Engines for example. A 30hp (any make) has gone up from £5,5k to £8k in the last 2 years. The "rubbish " wheelpilot is now £1500, proper ones £3000 + fitting. Rigging is up 50% - my simple single spreader 5mm with bottlescrews cost £1400 just for making up last year. My friend has just had a new Jefa rudder for a similar size Hanse - £5k. Have any of you bought new sails recently?

BTW don't forget you will need insurance, particularly when you go off transatlantic and you will no doubt require a survey....

 

[dgadee]

Many of those prices quoted are way out of date - even if only 2-3 years old. Engines for example. A 30hp (any make) has gone up from £5,5k to £8k in the last 2 years. The "rubbish " wheelpilot is now £1500, proper ones £3000 + fitting. Rigging is up 50% - my simple single spreader 5mm with bottlescrews cost £1400 just for making up last year. My friend has just had a new Jefa rudder for a similar size Hanse - £5k. Have any of you bought new sails recently?

BTW don't forget you will need insurance, particularly when you go off transatlantic and you will no doubt require a survey....

Yes, I understand. But £50k? I also have tended to repair where possible while others may replace. The engine was the only thing I replaced which could have been overhauled. The prop suited the new Yanmar torque.

Costs of insurance and haul out etc. are not really part of the purchase/repair price.

I spend 5 or so months a year on board. Taking into account purchase costs and expenses it is not a very expensive lifestyle with some residual value in the boat when I get too old.

You don't need a perfect/as new boat. If the deck is ok on the 36cws I think it is worth thinking about. I love the central electric winch and the self tacking jib.

No interest in the Atlantic. I am currently trying to get out of the Aegean and its winds: the crew doesn't like it one bit. Friday looks possible but she's noted that it's the 13th.

 

[tchierici]

No interest in the Atlantic. I am currently trying to get out of the Aegean and its winds: the crew doesn't like it one bit. Friday looks possible but she's noted that it's the 13th.

I have met several people who spent years going around the globe on the "coconut milk run" riding the trade winds only to find the hardest wind conditions once they popped into the Aegean from the Suez canal.

 

[dgadee]

New rudder for 36cws is €7,000!!

At that price I would take the old one apart and rebuild it.

 

[dgadee]

I have met several people who spent years going around the globe on the "coconut milk run" riding the trade winds only to find the hardest wind conditions once they popped into the Aegean from the Suez canal.

55 mile beat to Crete today. I prpmised myself I would only go downwind in retirement.

 

[doris]

I think there is a very different view of what is an acceptable standard on maintenance here. I would be surprised if an insurance company accepted the rig without new standing rigging. That alone is £5k plus. Personally I want to be able to relax and enjoy when I go boating, not be permanently concerned about the integrity of my kit.
I wouldn’t go sky diving with a WW2 gov surplus canopy, but then others are happy to.
Each to their own .