Qualifications required for using a powerboat for paying guests

[jgmoss]

Hi Im a sailor with a coastal skipper practical, yachtmaster , ocean master theory and ICC, VHF and long distance radio licenses.
Ive been asked if i would help take paying guests 4-6 approx 500 metres on a powerboat to an island where they stay for a week. Do I need other qualifications ?
J

 

[Concerto]

The minimum would include getting your boat coded (expensive) and insurance. Without these I would recommend declining the opportunity.

 

[Stingo]

You'll need the RYA Commercial Endorsement

 

[jlavery]

You'll need the RYA Commercial Endorsement

Details of what you need are here:

Gaining commercial endorsements

A lot of trouble for what sounds like a small trip - unless it's a regular, ongoing, paying thing!

 

[Refueler]

500m .... few people ....

Unless you are determined to pocket the money - why not do it for the money to be donated to RNLI or some charity ?? You never touch the money - 'organiser' donates ?

That's what I've done. That way you are staying morally clean ...

 

[B27]

500m .... few people ....

Unless you are determined to pocket the money - why not do it for the money to be donated to RNLI or some charity ?? You never touch the money - 'organiser' donates ?

That's what I've done. That way you are staying morally clean ...

Ii think that's a bad idea, as someone else is taking money for the service as part of the holiday 'package'?
Also I think what matters is not the actual 'taking money' for the service so much as offering it to the 'public at large'.


Is this the sort of thing which might be covered by a 'boatman's licence' which I recall as being a council or maybe HM thing?

The MCA small commercial craft stuff on the web is what the OP needs to google.
Also maybe ask one of the better insurance brokers?

It is a serious business, and rightly so.

 

[jlavery]

Ii think that's a bad idea, as someone else is taking money for the service as part of the holiday 'package'?
Also I think what matters is not the actual 'taking money' for the service so much as offering it to the 'public at large'.


Is this the sort of thing which might be covered by a 'boatman's licence' which I recall as being a council or maybe HM thing?

The MCA small commercial craft stuff on the web is what the OP needs to google.
Also maybe ask one of the better insurance brokers?

It is a serious business, and rightly so.

I agree. If I recall correctly, the "Professional Practices And Responsibilities" part of the commercial endorsement requirements covers this sort of "workaround".

As soon as money or goods in kind change hands, you're likely to be regarded as a commercial operator. If things go wrong, or you're challenged on qualifications and boat coding, serious fines and other stuff can happen.

 

[B27]

Here's a random council page, which kind of implies you may not always need to do the full MCA/RYA route?
Pleasure boat licences | North Devon Council

Or do harbours pile another layer of paperwork on top?

 

[Refueler]

Blimey - guy is asked to run 4 - 6 people a distancē of 500m ... I don't read a business venture and continuation ..

I suggest donation to RNLI ....

Really guys ..think some need to chill out a bit !!

Of course if he's going to profit from it .. and possibly make this more than a single adventure .. then a serious look at the commercial rules is needed.

 

[scozzy]

Who are these "paying guests" actually paying? How do other guests usually get to this island assuming it's a "thing" ie. Cottage/air bnb clamping etc?

 

[ylop]

500m .... few people ....

Unless you are determined to pocket the money - why not do it for the money to be donated to RNLI or some charity ?? You never touch the money - 'organiser' donates ?

That's what I've done. That way you are staying morally clean ...

Blimey - guy is asked to run 4 - 6 people a distancē of 500m ... I don't read a business venture and continuation ..

I suggest donation to RNLI ....

Really guys ..think some need to chill out a bit !!

Of course if he's going to profit from it .. and possibly make this more than a single adventure .. then a serious look at the commercial rules is needed.

Within the letter of the rules doing it FOC doesn’t get you off the hook - the rules are you are only exempt from coding if the people on board are your immediate family and friends (for personally owned boats) of officers or employees (for corporate owned boats) or club members (for club owned boats). You can’t pick up random strangers and claim to be outside the regulations.

The consequences of breaking the rules may be very different for someone doing a one off favour for no personal gain than someone systematically ignoring them.

Which qualifications you need depend how the boat is coded. That in turn depends where the 500m is - some local authorities run licensing schemes; if the 500m is “at sea” or in categorised waters; how the vessel has been approved (if it’s cat 3 - even if it’s on a passage that could have been done by a cat 6 boat you need to be manned as for the Cat 3 requirements). As a minimum for a Cat 6 coded powerboat the OP requires a Commercially Endorsed Powerboat Level 2 Certificate. If there is a local authority scheme - it will probably require that too.

Chance of something going horribly wrong - very low
Change of getting caught for a one off - very low
Chance of the MCA deciding to make an example of you if something did happen, even if someone else’s error - quite high!

 

[B27]

Blimey - guy is asked to run 4 - 6 people a distancē of 500m ... I don't read a business venture and continuation ..

I suggest donation to RNLI ....

Really guys ..think some need to chill out a bit !!

Of course if he's going to profit from it .. and possibly make this more than a single adventure .. then a serious look at the commercial rules is needed.

Chill out, get sued, die penniless?

This isn't the Eastern Bloc here.

You are grossly wrong and out of order here.

 

[38mess]

Don't do it, if something goes wrong you will have to explain your actions to a judge. MCA will not hesitate to prosecute you.

 

[Mark-1]

Chance of something going horribly wrong - very low
Change of getting caught for a one off - very low
Chance of the MCA deciding to make an example of you if something did happen, even if someone else’s error - quite high!

Or if a passenger asked a question or two on the day and made a big fuss. That would be deeply embarrassing at the minimum.

It's pretty low risk but must be equally low reward, I'm not seeing the point.

 

[wonkywinch]

ylop is correct, the rules are pretty clear on what is considered private use. Anything else is considered commercial for which you need to be qualified and the vessel coded.

I've turned down several unpaid opportunities for free time on the water because it involved taking people who were not friends and family.

 

[Bouba]

I’ve gone on holiday trips where I’ve signed wavers before going in a helicopter.....something to the effect that I’m not a passenger but a student pilot...or co pilot...I can’t remember. The point being....nobody complains more than a British package holiday maker...I would want to be legally insulted from anything that could possibly go wrong

 

[William_H]

I think it essential if you are to remain safe do not take money or indeed talk of a price until the whole adventure is over. To make sure, ensure that they are your "friends" and know it. Donations for fuel can be made after the event. ol'will

 

[B27]

The cost of doing it properly may not be all that high.
Don't rule out looking into it.

 

[Refueler]

Chill out, get sued, die penniless?

This isn't the Eastern Bloc here.

You are grossly wrong and out of order here.

That's a daft reply and totally unneeded ...

When I lived / sailed in UK - I know of many instances of people doing just that ... any moneys donated to RNLI ....

FYI - over here - they are actually very strict about anything like this. When I registered Superanne - the Inspector questioned whether I would be giving day trips on the boat - as quite a few here do ... if so - then boat would be inspected annually ... gear requirements would be increased ... etc.

its that strict - that there is at present a discussion in Govt about changing the rules about boats staying here. I mentioned before a while back about Registration may be forced on us to use Latvian Register if boat stays here with Latvian Owner / Resident. This is because of a example : A large mobo is giving day trips out of Pavilosta .. number of people up to 12. The boat is registered in Norway and this prevents Latvian from inspecting and requiring standard's maintained.

 

[Refueler]

The problem today is the societal 'rules' have swung such that 1. people now look at things in 'what if' way .. 2. the 'old days' are gone where people acted and thought for themselves ...

Sorry but I really do think todays society has lost so much humanity ... I wonder how far its going to go before people finally say enough !