Purchase survey on sub 10k boat?

[richardsn9]

I am currently downsizing and currently looking at boats in the sub 10k bracket. I am an experienced boat owner, and know most of the obvious issues, and am looking for a boat in good shape, not a project. Compared to the likely purchase cost of the boat, a full survey would work out very expensive. Also, the scope for major price negotiations is likely to be limited by the sums involved.

I am wondering if there are any insurance companies do not insist on a survey for boats of this value, or if anyone can recommend a surveyor in the Solent area who would do a very basic and low cost structural survey which would satisfy an insurance company?

 

[simonfraser]

My insurance co has never been fussed about a survey

 

[pvb]

What sort of age of boat are you looking at? Many insurers might ask for a survey at 25 years old or so.

 

[dolabriform]

What sort of age of boat are you looking at? Many insurers might ask for a survey at 25 years old or so.

It depends on how big the boat is?

 

[richardsn9]

It depends on how big the boat is?

Probably 24-27 foot, and over 25 years old, so a survey may be necessary to get insurance?

 

[pvb]

Probably 24-27 foot, and over 25 years old, so a survey may be necessary to get insurance?

Could well be; why not ask a few potential insurers what their requirements would be?

 

[dolabriform]

Probably 24-27 foot, and over 25 years old, so a survey may be necessary to get insurance?

Nav&Gen and I believe others have a small craft policy up to 25ft that don't require a survey

 

[Refueler]

If 3rd party insurance is all you need to cover knocks to others and Marina requirements of cover ... then go Basic Boat ... no survey .. cheap as chips ...

If you need full cover - then Manheimer in Germany don't need a survey .. fees are lot less than most UK based ... and they insure anywhere ...

 

[Jcorstorphine]

UOTE="richardsn9, post: 7032770, member: 25050"]
I am currently downsizing and currently looking at boats in the sub 10k bracket. I am an experienced boat owner, and know most of the obvious issues, and am looking for a boat in good shape, not a project. Compared to the likely purchase cost of the boat, a full survey would work out very expensive. Also, the scope for major price negotiations is likely to be limited by the sums involved.

I am wondering if there are any insurance companies do not insist on a survey for boats of this value, or if anyone can recommend a surveyor in the Solent area who would do a very basic and low cost structural survey which would satisfy an insurance company?
[/QUOTE]

My old Motorsailer which is approx 1976 build is insured with GJW and I understand that if the boat is under 10K and of a know type and builder, eg Westerly Centaur, they will ask for a self survey and a number of photographs of the exterior and interior. Also helps if you can document sailing and ownership history. If pushed you may be able to get a valuation survey which does not cover anything other than the boats market value.

 

[oldgit]

When I sold my previous boat and upgraded to my latest boat,a bit bigger and more money, my insurance company (SAGA) told me over the phone they did not require a survey.
Ps, they have just reduced my insurance premium.

 

[Greemble]

When I sold my previous boat and upgraded to my latest boat,a bit bigger and more money, my insurance company (SAGA) told me over the phone they did not require a survey.

I just had a quote from Saga - they state they require a full, out of water survey.

Perhaps they just don't like small boats...

 

[rszemeti]

I wouldn't bother with the survey, we paid £420 for one that wasnt worth the electrons it was written with. You know what you are doing, just crawl over it from end to end inside and out and satisfy yourself.

 

[pvb]

I wouldn't bother with the survey, we paid £420 for one that wasnt worth the electrons it was written with. You know what you are doing, just crawl over it from end to end inside and out and satisfy yourself.

From a purchase point of view, I can agree with that. But if the insurer then demands a survey?

 

[Concerto]

Talk to your insurer as I have heard some accept an owner produced survey for lower valued boats. Provided it covers exactly the same information an insurance survey should contain along with photographic evidence, why should they refuse. If they do, go elsewhere with your business as the survey may be just a way of getting rid of business they find unprofitable.

 

[Daverw]

On both my boats, insurers never asked for survey, last one fully complies and they asked for some photos

 

[agurney]

Try GJW - they were happy to insure my (well over 25 year old) boat with some photographs and affidavits about its condition and my sailing experience.

 

[srm]

Before I could renew my insurance for 2019 I had to provide an out of water survey report. I suspect the guy got his qualifications - all UK ones - from an online course. When the report came there were lots of factual errors, obviously a cut and paste job with more than two other boats mixed in with mine. Also, the guy had problems with standard terminology regarding rigging. He kept refering to my 'babystay' when my rig has four lower shrouds and being a cutter has two forestays so obviously does not need a 'babystay'. Eventually I realised that he was refering to the removable (or portable) masthead forestay that can be set up for a storm jib. The report was full of disclaimers and instructions to have all annual checks/maintenance done by professionals.

I would suggest that before anyone commissions a survey they ask probing questions about exactly how the candidate surveyor gained their qualifications; also what work and for how many years they have done in boatyards, other than 'surveying'.

Despite the fact that the survey reduced the boat's insured value my premium only dropped a few pounds. When taken as a percentage of insured value my premiums have been steadily increasing over the years to double the rate that it was 10 years ago. This year's renewal premium was hiked by a further 7%. despite continuous cover with the same broker for 18 years without a claim. When I pointed out to the broker that I felt I was being descriminated against the response was that everyone was paying more to cover all the claims that had been made. Even their offer of third party only was at more than my premium rate ten years ago.

As my boat is kept outside the UK I went to a local broker and took third party cover at the level and rate that locals pay - at a considerable saving on UK rates.

If you have got this far sorry for the rant but I feel that we are being ripped off by surveyors and insurers. Going back to the OP I would suggest that he satisfies himself about the boat, keeps it in good condition, and just takes out third party cover for a realistic value given his marina / berthing requirements. The saving on insurance premiums can be spent on looking after the boat.

 

[langstonelayabout]

Nav&Gen and I believe others have a small craft policy up to 25ft that don't require a survey

That is correct, and was the policy I was insured with when my newly-bought Pegasus 23 split the hull alongside the bilge keel and sank. N&G asked me to prove that the start of the split wasn't a pre-existing condition. Of course I couldn't and they didn't pay. I'd just wasted 4k of my hard earned money.

I've since only insured with other companies but have had all my purchases since then professionally surveyed for me rather than my insurance company.

 

[langstonelayabout]

I wouldn't bother with the survey, we paid £420 for one that wasnt worth the electrons it was written with. You know what you are doing, just crawl over it from end to end inside and out and satisfy yourself.

And I'd say do bother with a survey, but having paid similar money for a survey on my last boat that wasn't worth the paper it was written on, from a supposedly reputable south coast surveyor, I'd say that doing due diligence on the surveyor is also part of the work to get a decent survey.

Indeed, if you can, do attend the survey with a list of the items that you wish to receive 'professional' feedback on. Some surveyors are good, others less so...

 

[oldgit]

I just had a quote from Saga - they state they require a full, out of water survey.

Perhaps they just don't like small boats...

Previous boat insured with SAGA for several years..Contacted them after purchase of latest boat for insurance cover and was pleasantly suprised to find that they were happy to accept my assertion that boat was sound and they did not require a survey.
Did make a claim a year later. Carried out the repairs (stern gear) myself and SAGA paid up quickly and without fuss.
Insured with CraftInsure many many years ago. Made a claim and again matter was solved quickly and with no fuss.
Everything all done online.