Purchase advice for a first real small boat (probably used)

If the driving license is a limiting factor, isnt it best to get whatever extra training/test is required in order to tow something bigger? I expect you'd quickly outgrow a small boat like that.

I have to confess I am not up on the newer driving license rules, since I passed my test in 1990 so I think I can just tow up to the cars limit with no issues, so maybe its not just as simple as taking an additional test.

Edited to add , according to the web, it looks like you need to do the following to be able to tow a heavier trailer:

1. Apply for provisional licence for a medium-sized lorry and trailer (category C1+E).
2. Pass the lorry theory test.
3. Pass the C1+E driving test.
 
Last edited:
julians said:
If the driving license is a limiting factor, isnt it best to get whatever extra training/test is required in order to tow something bigger? I expect you'd quickly outgrow a small boat like that.

I have to confess I am not up on the newer driving license rules, since I passed my test in 1990 so I think I can just tow up to the cars limit with no issues, so maybe its not just as simple as taking an additional test.

Edited to add , according to the web, it looks like you need to do the following to be able to tow a heavier trailer:

1. Apply for provisional licence for a medium-sized lorry and trailer (category C1+E).
2. Pass the lorry theory test.
3. Pass the C1+E driving test.
Click to expand...

I don't think that is correct. If you have a car licence, you just need to do the additional trailer test. I was thinking the same. Why limit you choice of boats for one day of training and a very small amount of money.
 
CLB said:
I don't think that is correct. If you have a car licence, you just need to do the additional trailer test. I was thinking the same. Why limit you choice of boats for one day of training and a very small amount of money.
Click to expand...

Here's a link to the .gov website where I got the info - but it looks like you are correct, there is a trailer test you can take, details below. I did think it looked like a bit of a draconian process just to be able to tow a trailer like the rest of us who passed before 1997.

https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car

https://www.gov.uk/car-trailer-driving-test
 
Last edited:
julians said:
Here's a link to the .gov website where I got the info - but it looks like you are correct, there is a trailer test you can take, details below

https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car

https://www.gov.uk/car-trailer-driving-test
Click to expand...

Hi gents,

The licence needed is B+E. It's only required for people who passed their car driving (B) test after January 1st 1997. Without it, you can only tow up to 750kg or a trailer over 750kg providing that the MAM of the car and trailer together doesn't exceed 3500kg. At least I think thats correct...dont quote me. We have a Navara and the MAM is 3050kg I think. So I'm limited to 750kg unless I do the test.

The test itself is apparently very similar to an HGV test, just scaled down. It costs about £600 at a nearby lorry training center.

There are other factors in play for me personally though. For at least the next 10 years I need to be able to launch single handed so its unlikely I'd be looking at anything larger for quite a while, unless we move house and take a mooring. The same £600 is going towards some further RYA training.
 
salad said:
Hi gents,

The licence needed is B+E. It's only required for people who passed their car driving (B) test after January 1st 1997. Without it, you can only tow up to 750kg or over 750kg providing that the MAM of the car and trailer together doesn't exceed 3500kg. At least I think thats correct...dont quote me.

The test itself is apparently very similar to an HGV test, just scaled down. It costs about £600 at a nearby lorry training center.

There are other factors in play for me personally though. For at least the next 10 years I need to be able to launch single handed so its unlikely I'd be looking at anything larger for quite a while, unless we move house and take a mooring. The same £600 is going towards some further RYA training.
Click to expand...

The gov website says the test is £115 on a weekday. but I suppose you need to hire a suitable trailer, and maybe a car, and then maybe you need some practice, so I can see how it could end up around £600. Still I think I'd rather do that than be extremely limited in boat choice. Obviously its up to you though.

https://www.gov.uk/driving-test-cost
 
julians said:
The gov website says the test is £115 on a weekday.

https://www.gov.uk/driving-test-cost
Click to expand...

Thats the test fee only, yes, without any training but I'd need a few days practice for sure. It's not just a bit of reversing, there are sequences to learn etc.

Edit: The people I really feel sorry for are young farmers, who can legally drive a tractor and tow 20 tonnes of carrots behind them, but can't legally tow 1,000kg behind a car!
 
Last edited:
I remember reading about the Terhi and it got good reviews but going by the pictures it doesn't look to have very high gunwhales and the seating looks a squeeze and overall tight for anymore than 2 people. I really think you need to see it in the flesh before spending 20k.

I've had 5 years of very happy and fun boating around Guernsey with the wife and kids out of a 16 year old dell quay marlin 520 sport open bow sport fisher (17ft) which i bought for £3k with trailer! The open bow style is good for maximising deck space and my focus was on child safety with high sides (like you) but i definitely wouldn't want anything smaller if you plan on spending much time with family and friends at anchor or fishing.

My point being that personally I wouldn't worry about an older hull. My main priority would be the engine and the size and practicality of the hull for the kind of boating you want to do ( the hull needs to be sound and good condition of course).....otherwise you'll spend 20k on a driveway ornament!
 
wellf100 said:
I remember reading about the Terhi and it got good reviews but going by the pictures it doesn't look to have very high gunwhales and the seating looks a squeeze and overall tight for anymore than 2 people. I really think you need to see it in the flesh before spending 20k.

I've had 5 years of very happy and fun boating around Guernsey with the wife and kids out of a 16 year old dell quay marlin 520 sport open bow sport fisher (17ft) which i bought for £3k with trailer! The open bow style is good for maximising deck space and my focus was on child safety with high sides (like you) but i definitely wouldn't want anything smaller if you plan on spending much time with family and friends at anchor or fishing.

My point being that personally I wouldn't worry about an older hull. My main priority would be the engine and the size and practicality of the hull for the kind of boating you want to do ( the hull needs to be sound and good condition of course).....otherwise you'll spend 20k on a driveway ornament!
Click to expand...

Welf100 has hit the nail on the head - buy a secondhand hull and put a new outboard on it... You are buying an engine with a boat attached not the other way round (as on your other thread regarding engine choice).

I do think the boat you have chosen is just to small to be used in UK coastal waters. I'm sure it will be fine on lakes/lochs etc.
 
wellf100 said:
I remember reading about the Terhi and it got good reviews but going by the pictures it doesn't look to have very high gunwhales and the seating looks a squeeze and overall tight for anymore than 2 people. I really think you need to see it in the flesh before spending 20k.

I've had 5 years of very happy and fun boating around Guernsey with the wife and kids out of a 16 year old dell quay marlin 520 sport open bow sport fisher (17ft) which i bought for £3k with trailer! The open bow style is good for maximising deck space and my focus was on child safety with high sides (like you) but i definitely wouldn't want anything smaller if you plan on spending much time with family and friends at anchor or fishing.

My point being that personally I wouldn't worry about an older hull. My main priority would be the engine and the size and practicality of the hull for the kind of boating you want to do ( the hull needs to be sound and good condition of course).....otherwise you'll spend 20k on a driveway ornament!
Click to expand...

Thanks wellf. I've looked at the seating and initially thought it looked cramped until I saw this: IMGA0022-1-1024x576.jpg

I think because the seats have rake to them, it appears from many photos as though the rear legroom is very cramped. The cushions don't extend beyond the rear bench locker even with the back rest installed, so I'm thinking it must be down to perspective. Either that, or they altered position of the pilot/co-pilot seats to reduce rear legroom on the 2019 model, which wouldn't make a lot of sense. Also the sundeck accessory fits both the 2018 and 2019 models, so had them repositioned furniture, there would have had to have been a change there.

I thought the gunwhales looked relatively deep as the freeboard is quite generous, especially with the guard rails.

My main concern with older GRP boats, aside from the weight, is osmosis. I've seen what it can do and it's not always obvious without stripping a boat apart. I'm guessing most sellers wouldn't allow such an instrusive pre-sale examination.

That said, I'm going to have a look at Marlins. I have always enjoyed the look of Dell Quay boats, growing up lusting after a Dory.

Hot Property, noted on LOA being small for coasting cruising. What is generally defined as coastal? I mean theres around the lizard and then theres say, a sheltered sea loch bay. I wouldn't even consider the former of those!
 
and thank you again everyone, this is exactly the sort of discussion I needed. Its making me think. I hope the thread is useful to someone else in the future too.
 
I wouldn't worry about osmosis in the age and type of boats youll be looking at. They either not be old enough to be affected by it, or will be typically stored on a trailer so won't be kept in the water for long enough to be affected by it.
 
salad said:
Thanks wellf. I've looked at the seating and initially thought it looked cramped until I saw this: View attachment 78508

I think because the seats have rake to them, it appears from many photos as though the rear legroom is very cramped. The cushions don't extend beyond the rear bench locker even with the back rest installed, so I'm thinking it must be down to perspective. Either that, or they altered position of the pilot/co-pilot seats to reduce rear legroom on the 2019 model, which wouldn't make a lot of sense. Also the sundeck accessory fits both the 2018 and 2019 models, so had them repositioned furniture, there would have had to have been a change there.

I thought the gunwhales looked relatively deep as the freeboard is quite generous, especially with the guard rails.

My main concern with older GRP boats, aside from the weight, is osmosis. I've seen what it can do and it's not always obvious without stripping a boat apart. I'm guessing most sellers wouldn't allow such an instrusive pre-sale examination.

That said, I'm going to have a look at Marlins. I have always enjoyed the look of Dell Quay boats, growing up lusting after a Dory.

Hot Property, noted on LOA being small for coasting cruising. What is generally defined as coastal? I mean theres around the lizard and then theres say, a sheltered sea loch bay. I wouldn't even consider the former of those!
Click to expand...

i was thinking more about the rear bench and the bow area.....looks very cramped to me.

here's one like mine that was on ebay recently for £6,795. The extra few feet can get you so much more use-able space.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Marlin-D...=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Not suggesting you have to get a Dell Quay of course! There's lots of similar types either walk through or centre console. Spend some time taking a look at some in in person if i were you.

classic boston whaler with less than 2 year old yam 100
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/233260077426

not much detail but with nearly new merc 60hp for less than 10k.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/233251885189
 
if you're keen on something new you could also consider and Atlantis 16cc. Built by Patrick Wheeler in Guernsey with a focus on safety, solidity and sea keeping to cope with the challenging channel islands waters. 70cm high freeboard in the 16. A no frills layout but that keeps the costs down although when I spoke to him about the 26cc in April he said he's happy to do customisation's such as different seating options etc.

Patrick has a bunch of video's on Vimeo to see the 16cc and the other models in action. Pricing is all on the website. For the 16cc it's £16k + vat with Etec 90hp. £17,200 + vat with Merc 115hp.

http://www.atlantismarine.biz/atlantis-16-cc.html

And one other thing....given your towing restriction have you looked into a mooring or dry stack? You could then look at bigger boats and more options still within your budget. Many people are happy trail boating but personally i find towing an absolute pain and faff and I only live 2 miles from the slipway!...and that's without my kids in the car! You didn't say where you live but being able to jump in the car, head to the marina, jump on the boat and go means you'll get far more use out of your investment. In my experience weather, tides, work commitments and family commitments don't often align!! and with the size of boat you're looking at and with a child you'll be even more wary about the weather.
 
wellf100 said:
if you're keen on something new you could also consider and Atlantis 16cc. Built by Patrick Wheeler in Guernsey with a focus on safety, solidity and sea keeping to cope with the challenging channel islands waters. 70cm high freeboard in the 16. A no frills layout but that keeps the costs down although when I spoke to him about the 26cc in April he said he's happy to do customisation's such as different seating options etc.

Patrick has a bunch of video's on Vimeo to see the 16cc and the other models in action. Pricing is all on the website. For the 16cc it's £16k + vat with Etec 90hp. £17,200 + vat with Merc 115hp.

http://www.atlantismarine.biz/atlantis-16-cc.html

And one other thing....given your towing restriction have you looked into a mooring or dry stack? You could then look at bigger boats and more options still within your budget. Many people are happy trail boating but personally i find towing an absolute pain and faff and I only live 2 miles from the slipway!...and that's without my kids in the car! You didn't say where you live but being able to jump in the car, head to the marina, jump on the boat and go means you'll get far more use out of your investment. In my experience weather, tides, work commitments and family commitments don't often align!! and with the size of boat you're looking at and with a child you'll be even more wary about the weather.
Click to expand...

Thats interesting as I'm visiting a client in Guerney at some point soon, I could go take a look. Snag is, I'd have to pay VAT on top as there is no VAT in Guernsey. They look well made but of course intentionally stripped out. One of the key factors for the family side is some form of sundeck at the bow, removeable ideally for fishing. I wonder how much the price would increase with a fit out and VAT. In excess of £30k I'd imagine?

I've considered mooring, dry stack and trailer storage. The most convenient is storage on a trailer. The only water near my are rivers and canals and it would be many hours sail to the open sea. We'd like to use the boat alongside camping and also visits to Scotland and the south coast, so trailer is really the only option for that flexibility. Fortunately I've found somewhere to store it that isn't crazy expensive but is indoors and secure. It's ideally located for picking up the boat en-route to most of the destinations we travel to even though it's not close to home as such.

For me there isn't any question of going out in any sort of poor weather with a young child aboard. I wouldn't even consider it. If it was a question of going to pick up a creel or two, I'd go alone. It's summer use only for the boat (and tent!). Tried camping in October once, was not fun!
 
salad said:
Thats interesting as I'm visiting a client in Guerney at some point soon, I could go take a look. Snag is, I'd have to pay VAT on top as there is no VAT in Guernsey. They look well made but of course intentionally stripped out. One of the key factors for the family side is some form of sundeck at the bow, removeable ideally for fishing. I wonder how much the price would increase with a fit out and VAT. In excess of £30k I'd imagine?

I've considered mooring, dry stack and trailer storage. The most convenient is storage on a trailer. The only water near my are rivers and canals and it would be many hours sail to the open sea. We'd like to use the boat alongside camping and also visits to Scotland and the south coast, so trailer is really the only option for that flexibility. Fortunately I've found somewhere to store it that isn't crazy expensive but is indoors and secure. It's ideally located for picking up the boat en-route to most of the destinations we travel to even though it's not close to home as such.

For me there isn't any question of going out in any sort of poor weather with a young child aboard. I wouldn't even consider it. If it was a question of going to pick up a creel or two, I'd go alone. It's summer use only for the boat (and tent!). Tried camping in October once, was not fun!
Click to expand...

okay dokey, fair enough and good luck with whatever you go for! The Terhi is certainly nice and light for towing!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Other threads that may be of interest

RobWales
Anyone in Denia Spain?
Replies
1
Views
274
petem
petem
Canopy Locked
Transom strength
Replies
10
Views
365
Canopy Locked
Canopy Locked
Irish Rover
Compact Binoculars 8 x 32
Replies
13
Views
550
Egret
E
S
We've been on our first cruise!
Replies
1
Views
292
tico
T

Share this page

Top