Protection product test

[Marine Reflections]

Hi all!

It's been on my mind for a while to do a fair and honest forum based product protection test.

One where we can actually see and record how each product compares to the next.

So prompted by another thread I'd like to contact a few of the main players in the marine protection industry and see if they are willing to put their products up for evaluation.

The test will be fairly straightforward, a flawless gel coated surface will be divided up into sections, prepared and applied with each product and followed with monthly wash downs with each manufacturers recommended wash down products.
The test will last for a year and I will update on a regular basis and comment on how each product is doing.

So far, the products suggested to be in the test are from:

Dulon international

A-Glaze

3M marine

NanoPro chemicals

Silveryak

The test will be split into two categories, waxes and sealers.

If you would like to add a product that you've had good success with, I will contact the manufacturers and see if they would like to be included.

A full line up will be posted once I hear back from them all and we can begin.

Please feel free to add any suggestions.


Tony

 

[matt1]

Hi Tony,

Brilliant!

Can I suggests adding Maguires and Permanon?

I've seen some amazing results on some older Westerlys using maguires but the wax just doesn't seem to last on my boat, so I tried Permanon ...a nano thingy ....used on aeroplanes....can't yet decide if it's better.

Would be really interested to follow your tests, what a great idea

Matt

 

[pvb]

Excellent idea! I used Meguiars polish, followed by Meguiars wax, to great effect on my old HR. You might consider including this treatment.

 

[Marine Reflections]

Thank you guys, I've just contacted both Permanon and Meguiars to see if they will put anything forward.

 

[matt1]

Out of interest what boat will you be using it on and (in your experience) how much variance is there in the quality of gelcoat? Eg why does Maguires work so well on the couple of Westerly's I know but my gelcoat seems to oxidise really quickly?

 

[Marine Reflections]

Out of interest what boat will you be using it on and (in your experience) how much variance is there in the quality of gelcoat? Eg why does Maguires work so well on the couple of Westerly's I know but my gelcoat seems to oxidise really quickly?

That's a good question.

There is a difference between the gelcoat manufacturers use and you are right, all gel coat is not equal.

I'm afraid though there isn't a short answer to the question, there are many variables that come into play as to why one works well for one but not on others.

As with many things there is a lot at play at the microscopic level, what may seem perfect to the naked eye might be completely different at the microscopic level.
Also the history of a surface plays a part, a surface that has had severe oxidation in the past may well be able to be brought back from the dead, but it's molecular construction has taken a beating and would perform differently in the future to one that has been looked after and has not been allowed to become overly oxidised.

A lot is also down to how well the surface has been prepared, for example a surface may look perfect and ready for protection, but under real scrutiny tiny flaws are found. UV and oxygen take any chance they can at exchanging free radicals with the surface and causing the surface to degrade.
But yes, a lot is also down to the quality of the gel coat in the first place.

Think of it in terms of wood.

If you were to say test a wood protection product, but use two different woods, for example a soft pine and a hard iroko, there would be a huge difference in the appearance and general condition of the wood by the end of the year.
It would be unfair to judge the wood protection rather than the wood itself as the underlying cause of success or failure.

The same can be said of gel coat.

For the test I will be making a brand new grp panel and using Scott Bader 65PA Crystic gel coat which has a very good reputation for it's weatherproof abilities, certainly more iroko of the gel coat world rather than pine.
This way though the products are all on a level playing field.

Tony

 

[matt1]

Makes sense, interestingly I'm pretty sure my deck, at least, is the Scott Bader gel you mention, because I seem to remember that reference from the colour chart when I selected the colours for the two tone deck.

After what you have said about preparation, I wonder if part of my issue may be that I'm never really removing the oxidation in the first place (I'm paranoid about rubbing the gel away, since I cut back every spring, so I use the lightest, least abrasive product I can).

Anyway, can't wait to see your results

Matt

 

[Skylark]

I use Autoglym super resin polish. It would be interesting to compare a non-dedicated marine product.

 

[rlw]

I use riwax hard wax at the moment. Seems to be pretty durable.

http://www.riwax.com/

Be interested if you can include this in the test.

Rob

 

[Marine Reflections]

Makes sense, interestingly I'm pretty sure my deck, at least, is the Scott Bader gel you mention, because I seem to remember that reference from the colour chart when I selected the colours for the two tone deck.

After what you have said about preparation, I wonder if part of my issue may be that I'm never really removing the oxidation in the first place (I'm paranoid about rubbing the gel away, since I cut back every spring, so I use the lightest, least abrasive product I can).

Anyway, can't wait to see your results

Matt

It's probably the number 1 reason Matt, but in contradiction it's always good to use the least aggressive first, you can always provide another pass or two.

The problem stems from filling up the highs and lows of the surface rather than levelling it smooth.

The next time you approach it, after the first pass wipe the surface down with acetone, this will remove any oils that may remain from the process (that were really there to provide workability) this will reveal the true surface condition.

Indeed oxidation can seem to disappear by being filled, a bit like spilling water on a carpet and creating a shine, the results are temporary as the surface condition remains near on the same.

In short - your right!

 

[Marine Reflections]

I use Autoglym super resin polish. It would be interesting to compare a non-dedicated marine product.

I agree David, but the srp from AutoGlym is more of a cleaner / polish protection, if I approached AG to be part of the test they would never put forward the srp, they do sealants and higher content waxes that would perform better as a stand alone protection app.

But yes it would be worth adding just to see what the results would be in reality. Will contact them

 

[Marine Reflections]

I use riwax hard wax at the moment. Seems to be pretty durable.

http://www.riwax.com/

Be interested if you can include this in the test.

Rob

Oooh I've not heard of them Rob, which country do you use to purchase through as the UK doesn't seem to be on their list?

 

[KINGFISHER 9]

Bullet Carnauba Wax Spray?

 

[D&T]

Nanotech were at Southampton Boat show. I bought a polish which has no silicone (unlike many others makes) and a nano sealer.

It would be good if they were included, as their website and FB suggests that they use their products on clients boats themselves.

I have done a trail area. but results are not known yet.

So far I have tried many products, but the waxes do not last (blue hull) and oxidation appears all too soon (I am also very fussy)

 

[Marine Reflections]

Bullet Carnauba Wax Spray?

Will contact them and see if they would like to get involved, it's mainly your fault we're running this!

 

[Marine Reflections]

Nanotech were at Southampton Boat show. I bought a polish which has no silicone (unlike many others makes) and a nano sealer.

It would be good if they were included, as their website and FB suggests that they use their products on clients boats themselves.

I have done a trail area. but results are not known yet.

So far I have tried many products, but the waxes do not last (blue hull) and oxidation appears all too soon (I am also very fussy)

Indeed yes, think it would be unfair not to include them.
Will contact them.

 

[Marine Reflections]

So, emails are coming back to me from manufacturers, some samples are in already, I'm sure these guys are pestered often for 'samples' but the power of the forum seems to be shining through.

The list so far up for comparison is as follows, all are not confirmed as yet so the line up may change.

Dulon Marine

AGlaze

3M Marine

Nano pro Chemicals

Silveryak

Meguiars

Permanon

AutoGlym

Bullet Polish

Nanotech Marine

Thinking more on it (and sparked by D&T's comment) I may well create the GRP panel with three different colours (red, white & blue so we can see how each perform.

 

[Trundlebug]

This is shaping up to be a fascinating test, I'm already looking forward to the results.

With the number of participants and products on trial you're going to need a pretty large panel - or boat!

One thing I would suggest is to ensure the test surface faces south to get maximum uv and general weather exposure.
Thanks for volunteering to do this, I for one much appreciate the time and effort that will be involved initially.

Hopefully it will show once and for all that there is a clear" winner" in terms of offering best / longest lasting protection, but can I be the first to predict that what we'll probably see is that they're all very close (maybe with one or two exceptions) in performance terms and therefore it just boils down to ease of application, value for money and personal preference.
You can't beat real test data to be sure though!

 

[Marine Reflections]

This is shaping up to be a fascinating test, I'm already looking forward to the results.

With the number of participants and products on trial you're going to need a pretty large panel - or boat!

One thing I would suggest is to ensure the test surface faces south to get maximum uv and general weather exposure.
Thanks for volunteering to do this, I for one much appreciate the time and effort that will be involved initially.

Hopefully it will show once and for all that there is a clear" winner" in terms of offering best / longest lasting protection, but can I be the first to predict that what we'll probably see is that they're all very close (maybe with one or two exceptions) in performance terms and therefore it just boils down to ease of application, value for money and personal preference.
You can't beat real test data to be sure though!

Yes, a largish panel or application methods would be compromised, was thinking of having ten confirmed products on the list, once the 10 are in I think we'll have to get things underway.
A square foot for each product so 10ft x 1ft but with at least two different colour gel coats running down the centre, white and blue as these are the most common and should show a difference in themselves alone.
I've just ordered 25KG of 65PA gel coat, it should be enough

Facing south yes, want the most exposure we can get or we might have to wait several months before we see any difference between them based on oxygen exposure alone.

Was also thinking of how to compare in a fair manner. Some will be based on a solid UV block basis and not synthetic based water beading, so it's going to be tricky to ensure that each product is given a fair chance based on it's actual claims.

I recall recently seeing a picture where different animals were lined up and given an IQ test. The first test was given as "who can climb that tree".

The monkey had a big smile on his face but the penguin - not so much.

At the end of the day though, we are after one thing - protection of our gelcoat.

I agree that price plays a factor, as does ease of application, but again these boil down to cost effectiveness rather than initial cost and possibly how many applications are required in order to keep up the protection layer.

I guess my role is simply going to be to display the facts as fairly and clearly as possible and we will no doubt debate the cost effectiveness and application ease etc once the results are plain to see.

I'm going to try and stay as impartial as I possibly can, but I think you are quite right, I don't feel that any are going to be losers as they wouldn't be in business very long. We may see clear 'winners' we may not.
One thing is for certain in my opinion, a lot of the mixed results and opinions that are about regarding various products are usually down to the variables. It's very important to get the preparation, application and follow up with recommended wash down products correct. Alongside this of course is the gel coat itself.

These are far from controlled conditions and I feel that for the manufacturers taking part it shows a large degree of confidence regarding their products to put them forward for this kind of testing.
I could have just simply done the test without contacting them, but I felt that this would be unfair.


Tony

 

[KINGFISHER 9]

Will contact them and see if they would like to get involved, it's mainly your fault we're running this!

Yes sorry about that! Feel free to try your samples on my fading gelcoat in the South of France any time you like ... I've got plenty of spare bedrooms and an indoor swimming pool that might benefit from a polish as well!