Princess crashes into Richmond Bridge

[Chris_d]

Having spent many years based on The Thames I did this trip many times en route to St. Kats and the sea. My first reaction to the story was actually related to how did Mr Skinner get a P67 through Hammersmith bridge (twice) which is 2 metres lower than Richmond. There is no doubt that time was an issue as getting enough height under Hammersmith needs careful balance with having enough water to get through the shallow section between Richmond lock and Kew.

Ditch crawling in a larger boat is a definite skill of its own with tight bridges being a particular skill. It's one of the rare times when you don't pussyfoot with the throttles. If you feel you're off line to go straight through you put on a lot of power astern to get her out against the flow behind you. Equally when you are lined up, as your bow enters you put a lot of power on! This is scary but your stern will drop by about a foot, maybe more on something like a P67 and gives you the critical extra clearance all ways round on the bridge.

You need to be comfortable with the boat and your skills but it does work.

I think Mr Skinner had done most of the work needed in planning the trip as he must have done the planning to get there and, eventually back with the difficult timings needed to avoid problems at the other points. Few would have the nerve to power a £2m boat through a bridge with several knots behind you but it is an known and effective way of doing it!

Got to agree all this talk of going backwards, using thrusters, speed of water over the rudder etc.... there is only one way to do this and it takes big sphericals.
Have spent a lifetime on rivers shooting bridges in a similar manner with all sorts of craft often with inches to spare, there is no easy safe way to do it, you need sufficent speed to maintain control
and use lots of power if its required. Which goes against the usual take it slow advice but if you don't think you can handle it you shouldn't cast off.

 

[Skinner56]

I doubt that fenders would have made any difference here but I would have involved your visitors more.
I'm sure I will get slated for that - but thats what I'd do.

Thanks for the support Hurricane.

My main issue with involving the guests I had on board that day was there total lack of experience on a boat. Coupled with the fact that not too long ago a deckhand in Australia was killed attempting to fend off a bridge support. I agree with the roving fender, though I'm not sure I would have wanted anyone bar a professional fending off a tower of stone. One point I will be making should I still be employed will be to conduct a training session in fender handling with my regular guests. Should go down a treat.

 

[Prhperio]

Thanks. Coming on here has only helped in dealing with this embarrassing episode. Most have been critical but justified, and I've learnt more than if I had gone into a melancholic stupor. Largest portion of the damage is to the radar arch, surveyor in transit. Day trip from Imperial Wharf to Teddington return. Was a fantastic day up to that point.

Anyone with an ounce of boating experience will sympathise with you… We've all had c*ckups, just very very unfortunate that yours was so public and expensive. Top marks for coming on the forum, I for one have learned from the thread so appreciate your posting. Best wishes for a speedy resolution and many happier boating days ahead...

 

[Searush]

Thanks for the support Hurricane.

My main issue with involving the guests I had on board that day was there total lack of experience on a boat. Coupled with the fact that not too long ago a deckhand in Australia was killed attempting to fend off a bridge support. I agree with the roving fender, though I'm not sure I would have wanted anyone bar a professional fending off a tower of stone. One point I will be making should I still be employed will be to conduct a training session in fender handling with my regular guests. Should go down a treat.

TBH, I suspect the fenders only needed to be distributed down either side & just tied in place. Having guests running around with them is a disaster waiting to happen - then there is always the temptation of fending off tens of tons of boat with an arm or a leg, which doesn't bear thinking about (but happens regularly with less experienced guests)

It may be worth finding a regular fit young helper & training them up on stuff like tying fenders, warps, springs, Mob recovery & clearing the bogs. I'm sure there are loads of reliable teenagers that would jump at the chance, I would have done - in fact I would probably have paid you (but not much as I didn't have any money!) or at least done some cleaning/ polishing as well!

 

[Observer]

Well, I would like to nominate Skinner56 for newcomer of the year award. I totally admire his integrity in 'fessing up' to the mistake. Well done Skinner56 and I hope you hang around these boards because I, for one, will always remember and appreciate your honesty.

 

[Nick_H]

One point I will be making should I still be employed....

Does that mean you're a professional skipper? If so then it just goes to show that anyone can get it wrong occasionally, even those that drive boats for a living. I'm not sure if that's reassuring or worrying!

I hope you have an understanding owner.

 

[Skinner56]

Does that mean you're a professional skipper? If so then it just goes to show that anyone can get it wrong occasionally, even those that drive boats for a living. I'm not sure if that's reassuring or worrying!

I am yes. Though unfortunately with that comes the added pressures of pleasing and serving either paying guests or private individuals, and placing myself in situations that are uncomfortably challenging. This is in no way deflecting the responsibility I have to the safety of all on board and the boat, only it's an extraneous influence in my decision making. In a nutshell, my lack of experience on the river put me in that position, live and learn.

 

[Observer]

I am yes. Though unfortunately with that comes the added pressures of pleasing and serving either paying guests or private individuals, and placing myself in situations that are uncomfortably challenging. This is in no way deflecting the responsibility I have to the safety of all on board and the boat, only it's an extraneous influence in my decision making. In a nutshell, my lack of experience on the river put me in that position, live and learn.

Oh my. That makes things tricky.

By the way, I suppose you have seen that the YouTube views are now >95,000. Looks like you're going viral.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I am yes. Though unfortunately with that comes the added pressures of pleasing and serving either paying guests or private individuals, and placing myself in situations that are uncomfortably challenging. This is in no way deflecting the responsibility I have to the safety of all on board and the boat, only it's an extraneous influence in my decision making. In a nutshell, my lack of experience on the river put me in that position, live and learn.

Blimey, what sort of mood is your owner in? Has he calmed down now? Btw were you completely on your own? No stewie or other crew?

PS Please tell us that you learnt your boat handling skills on sail boats. That'll shut them lot on Scuttlebutt up for a while

 

[Resolution]

PS Please tell us that you learnt your boat handling skills on sail boats. That'll shut them lot on Scuttlebutt up for a while

Ouch! That's a bit below the belt, Mike. But understandable in the circs.
But you should note that after the initial puerile giggling comments the vast majority of the Scuttlebutt comments have been sympathetic to the skipper.

 

[capsco]

I notice there have been a few posters rubbishing the bows into the flow approach to a bridge.
The ones that suggest that powering through is the only way, have obviously never approached a bridge with marginal or insufficient clearance, this can be done quite safely stern first as if /when it becomes clear the is no/insufficient clearance for safe passage you simply drive away without placing the highest past of the boat structure beneath the bridge, as opposed to entering bows first a large section of the boat is well under before it is established if Clarence exists.

 

[oceanfroggie]

I notice there have been a few posters rubbishing the bows into the flow approach to a bridge.
The ones that suggest that powering through is the only way, have obviously never approached a bridge with marginal or insufficient clearance, this can be done quite safely stern first as if /when it becomes clear the is no/insufficient clearance for safe passage you simply drive away without placing the highest past of the boat structure beneath the bridge, as opposed to entering bows first a large section of the boat is well under before it is established if Clarence exists.

At times of the year there can be quite a strong flow under marginal clearance Shannon bridges. Stronger flows than on the video, especially in Killaloe and Limerick city.

We have used two methods to go downstream under low bridges:

1. When an airdraft guage exists upstream we look at it and decide if we can fit with certainty. If yes we go bow first using sufficient water speed to maintain good steerage and cope with any water turbulence on approach. This usually means water speed of 7kt+ (ie SOG between 9-14kt).
   .
2. If there is no airdraft guage then we have sometimes turn into the flow and gently ferry glided backwards and hold the vessel stationary close to the bridge to asses if there is enough clearance.
   
   1. If there is enough clearance, the arch is wide enough and there is no under bridge turbulence we continue to gently ferry glide back under the bridge.
   2. However if the conditions do not suit this (ie turbulence, narrow gap between arches, or flow not perpendicular to the bridge), we motor upstream, turn bow towards bridge and proceed with sufficient water speed through the bridge.

In the case of bridges such as Killaloe during winter/early spring which has a narrow gap of only 7m and a nasty cross flow a lot of power can be needed and one has to actually aim to hit the right hand pillar going under knowing the right to left cross flow will pull the vessel away. If you aim for the centre the vessel will strike the left pillar. Coming upstream in Limerick one can have between 4-9kt flow (spring ebb plus hydro dam) requiring semi-planing water speeds.

The big NO-NO is to slowly approach bow first sizing up a fit, as steerage will cease and the vessel can quickly drift beam on.

 

[Chris_d]

I notice there have been a few posters rubbishing the bows into the flow approach to a bridge.
The ones that suggest that powering through is the only way, have obviously never approached a bridge with marginal or insufficient clearance, this can be done quite safely stern first as if /when it becomes clear the is no/insufficient clearance for safe passage you simply drive away without placing the highest past of the boat structure beneath the bridge, as opposed to entering bows first a large section of the boat is well under before it is established if Clarence exists.

I don't think we are rubbishing that approach but my own experinence as Oceanfroggie has said, is that approaching slowly bow first is not the way to go and you will come unstuck very easily as did Skinner56. The problem with the stern first approach is lining the boat up whilst the bow is wildly flicked to either side as you back the power off to actually transit the arch, it sounds easy but you have a better chance going forwards and you have to commit.

 

[Switch]

Anyone with an ounce of boating experience will sympathise with you… We've all had c*ckups, just very very unfortunate that yours was so public and expensive. Top marks for coming on the forum, I for one have learned from the thread so appreciate your posting. Best wishes for a speedy resolution and many happier boating days ahead...

+ 1

 

[kcrane]

Looks similar to going through a lock on freeflow just after it opens, when the water levels are equalising. I used to use Chichester lock in a cat that was only a couple of feet narrower than the lock itself and couldn't bring myself to try it other than when everything had calmed down. I ran through the lock into Sutton Harbour on Monday just after it opened to freeflow, I was doing 3-4kts through the water to keep steerage and I went through at 6kts over the ground (speed limit is 4knts). I wasn't worrying about air draft of course. I am flipping sure I wouldn't be able to use OceanFroggie's technique

Hope the boat is soon fixed and back in commission, my heart sank when I heard the crunch as it hit the bridge - obviously lot of kinetic energy in 20 tonnes of slow moving boat boat.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

The big NO-NO is to slowly approach bow first sizing up a fit, as steerage will cease and the vessel can quickly drift beam on.

OF I accept your greater knowledge on this but is your boat single or twin screw?

 

[Uricanejack]

Bridges are awkward.
The constrict the flow of water creating eddies immediately downstream of the supports. Which often interact with the others from other supports.

This particular bridge does not look very enticing. There is no protection around the abutments. Does not appear to be a bridge which often accommodates vessels of this size.

I Saw no marking on the bridge to show where the clearance is between certain points.
I saw no leading light or marks for the approach.

If the abutments were fender the bridge would be protected from damage. It would also limit damage to the vessel.

To put it very simply this boat appears to me to have been big to safely transit under this particular bridge. Especially without specific local knowledge.

 

[Gentlemanracer]

We should be very grateful for the "lessons learned" opportunity here, all at the cost of others. If skipper's owner can't see the right side of the risk taken to accommodate the task, then skipper deserves a fundamentally more professional owner. He'd be more than welcome to helm for me. That's if I had something worthy of a challenge. Fibreglass is cheap, **** happens, next time in a similar case will be different for us all. New forum buddy, for sure, and most welcome.

 

[jfm]

The big NO-NO is to slowly approach bow first sizing up a fit, as steerage will cease and the vessel can quickly drift beam on.

Each to their own I suppose but my purely personal view on this is pretty much the same as Deleted User's. Basically, rudders bring absolutely nothing to the party. In a planing boat like this with twin screws and nice engines that maintain 600rpm when you put them into gear and 45inch pitch props, I'd have absolutely all the thrust I need in any direction from the props. (you wouldn't with the fine pitch props of a D boat; but this is a P boat with coarse props). The last thing I'd ever want to do is to speed up so as to increase steerage. The rudders just don't add enough benefit to the proceedings.

Now if you love the rudders you could do the reverse-through thing, and have say 4kt STW and 1kt backwards under the bridge if you want, but I'd much prefer to do it forwards and move the boat exactly where I want using fwd and rev, but mostly rev to keep SOG to a knot or so, plus big side thrust in either direction from the kick of those 40P props.

On a small technicality I don't agree with those who say you could "lose the bow to the current" if pointing into the current and doing this backwards. You'd be driving the boat forward at 3-4 knots STW (with reverse 1 knot SOG or whatever under the bridge ) and you NEVER lose the bow in that scenario. You don't lose the bow if you drive a boat forwards STW 3 knots, ever, and that's all you'd be doing here.

No big deal and best wishes to Mr Skinner. As others have said we all make mistakes and the differences tend to be whether there are video cameras around. He clearly made a mistake when he allowed the boat to turn sideways on, too soon after he reversed out, and he should have stopped that anticlockwise spin of the boat at its inception, with a dollop of stbd reverse, plus b/thruster to port to stop the bow going too far to starboard as he kicked the stern back to the left. But 3 seconds of confusion/hesitation/looking the other way at something else that is worrying you (which can easily happen - I'm not condemning) and it can be too late. I'm 100% sure he knows that so it is hardly worth mentioning. It's all water under the bridge now

 

[Uricanejack]

Thanks for the support Hurricane.

My main issue with involving the guests I had on board that day was there total lack of experience on a boat. Coupled with the fact that not too long ago a deckhand in Australia was killed attempting to fend off a bridge support. I agree with the roving fender, though I'm not sure I would have wanted anyone bar a professional fending off a tower of stone. One point I will be making should I still be employed will be to conduct a training session in fender handling with my regular guests. Should go down a treat.

Good professional decision, GRP, stone parapets, stainless steel, and radar domes buff out and can be fixed up good as new. might cost a bit, that's what insurance is for.

Flesh and bone is much harder to fix and may never be the same again.

No body was hurt, just your pride,

As long as everyone is still standing at the end it wasn‘t a bad day after all.