Portuguese residency - current situation - advice needed

[nortada]

The point is that I believe residency becomes invalid if a person spends more than 183 days continuously out of the country. However without land border controls who is to know?
M.

Provided you remain in the Schengen Zone and do not sail out of a Portuguese marina, I agree. But a bit limiting don’t you think.

I would go even further and say, even if you do not have EU residency, provided you stay permanently in the Schengen Zone and do not transgress or get picked up by the authorities, you will probably escape detection. But if you are detected and picked up, you could be barred from the EU for life

Why take the risk

 

[webcraft]

Oh good grief . . .

Seems to me that Portuguese residency would allow more than three months a year in the Algarve if desired and more than three months a year in the Canaries if judiciously interspersed with wee trips to Madeira or Morocco.

Leaving three or four months back 'home' to catch the alleged Summer.

Sounds ideal. If the Portuguese authorities find out I haven't spent 183 days in any one year in the country then I will just have to man up and give up my residency. Hopefully by then Scotland will be well on the way to rejoining the EU.

As for the driving issue, it is a red herring. I have no intention of owning a car in Portugal, and would use my UK license or an IDP if I needed to hire one. Yes, I would be it is below the radar, and not strictly kosher, but that would be a risk I would be prepared to take to circumvent the mess Brexit is threatening to make. Plenty of Brits have been living below the radar in Spain and Portugal for years, and while some may have had to legitimise themselves or leave I am not aware of any who have been publicly flogged or sent to jail.

Thanks to all who have made a genuine contribution intending to be helpful. The rest of you, glad to have provided some entertainment. I am however still no closer to making an appointment and turning up with the necessary to get the piece of paper/plastic card.

- W

 

[Graham376]

You miss the point. From 1st Jan21 the UK will be a separate country - what then.

perhaps should of made the intent of my post clearer

I said - no info yet about >01/01/21

As with everything else, we'll just have to wait and see. Major problem is the conflicting information on the various government and EU sites and of course scare stories in the press confusing everyone.

 

[Graham376]

Seems to me that Portuguese residency would allow more than three months a year in the Algarve if desired and more than three months a year in the Canaries if judiciously interspersed with wee trips to Madeira or Morocco.

Leaving three or four months back 'home' to catch the alleged Summer.

Sounds ideal. If the Portuguese authorities find out I haven't spent 183 days in any one year in the country then I will just have to man up and give up my residency. Hopefully by then Scotland will be well on the way to rejoining the EU.

The main point about residency is that it's initially "temporary" and one has to spend 183 days per year for 5 years or it's invalidated. Remember when going to Canaries, your passport will most likely be stamped in and out, unlike when transiting Schengen.

At the end of 5 years when applying for permanent status, they're looking for proof of settlement - property (owned or rented), utility bills, means of support, etc. Those part way through their 5 years need to look ahead and decide how they will meet the criteria when it ends. We don't know what will change when we become third country citizens and if getting permanent will be as easy as when I did it some years ago.

 

[nortada]

Oh good grief . . .

Seems to me that Portuguese residency would allow more than three months a year in the Algarve if desired and more than three months a year in the Canaries if judiciously interspersed with wee trips to Madeira or Morocco.

Leaving three or four months back 'home' to catch the alleged Summer.

Sounds ideal. If the Portuguese authorities find out I haven't spent 183 days in any one year in the country then I will just have to man up and give up my residency. Hopefully by then Scotland will be well on the way to rejoining the EU.

As for the driving issue, it is a red herring. I have no intention of owning a car in Portugal, and would use my UK license or an IDP if I needed to hire one. Yes, I would be it is below the radar, and not strictly kosher, but that would be a risk I would be prepared to take to circumvent the mess Brexit is threatening to make. Plenty of Brits have been living below the radar in Spain and Portugal for years, and while some may have had to legitimise themselves or leave I am not aware of any who have been publicly flogged or sent to jail.

Thanks to all who have made a genuine contribution intending to be helpful. The rest of you, glad to have provided some entertainment. I am however still no closer to making an appointment and turning up with the necessary to get the piece of paper/plastic card.

- W

Under Schengen 90/180 rules you could do 90 days per year in the Canaries and 90 days in the Algarve per annum, with 90 days out of the EU in between.

 

[25931]

Think you have trawled back and part quoted a post from me back-along (#195).

You will recall my full post identified that you would be checked when you left the Schengen Zone, which would invariably happen if you depart from a marina or by air. I went on to concede that so long as you remained in the Schengen Zone, your movements may escape detection.

This thread is trying to give advice on residency in Portugal so I am increasingly interested why people who have no interest in residency in Portugal are determined to drift this thread off the topic?

Now that the OP has confirmed that he will not meet the criteria for temporary residency in Portugal (minimum of 6 month in residence, per year, for the first 5 years), the purpose of this thread has become somewhat academic.

Let's face it all this discussion is academic - I'm prepared to bet that the interpretation of the rules will continue to vary according to the ideas of the local official .

 

[Sailfree]

I said - no info yet about >01/01/21

As with everything else, we'll just have to wait and see. Major problem is the conflicting information on the various government and EU sites and of course scare stories in the press confusing everyone.

Sorry missed it! Thanks for reply.

 

[nortada]

Just for you Webby - Joint SEF/British Embassy Initiative.

Portugal’s SEF border and immigration agency and British Embassy launch joint information campaign - Portugal Resident

 

[capnsensible]

So why are you bothered with a Portuguese residency thread? Got nothing better to do?

Portugal is just a little part of Spain where they speak funny.





??

 

[Sailfree]

Regarding Portuguese residency - From others I have heard that some areas are more difficult and require proof that you can support yourself. I am aware that a number have achieved it easily with just a marina berth contract.

My experience may be useful for others.

I have Portuguese residency at Nazare. In Portugal there is an equivalent to a local council (town or village called Freguesia and municipal council is called Camara).

When I obtained residency I was buying an apartment in Nazare in 2016.

To obtain this I only produced the renting contract (Seller gave us a rental contract deducted from purchase price to assist getting bank a/c and other paperwork) and passport. I first registered at the Freguesia and got residency issued immediately. Prior to apartment purchase contract date Lawyer advised also getting residency at the Camara. I was unaware of these two residency places/requirements!! At neither was I asked about any financial matters.

We sold the Nazare apartment in December 2019 and been living on the boat in Nazare marina while a new house is being built in Carvalhal (a village slightly inland about 24mls South).

Could not register new house address until it had a external perimeter wall and postbox so left our official postal address as Nazare apartment. New French owners have kindly been keeping our mail for us.

I assumed just hand in old residency documents and they will issue new ones with new address - not so easy!!

However now transferring residency. Tried Utente No first ( effectively NHS registration - the health centre emphasised I must transfer everything ). Health centre were helpful but suggested we should not submit Utente form until we had transferred everything and Finances - NIR No was the most important.

Finances was easy - just phoned for appointment (all government offices are closed in these Covid time and appointment only) and they issued new NIR document with new address

Then went to my new Camara (Bombarral) expecting it to be easy to replace my old documents for new ones.

"No" receptionist said. First I must get residency at the Freguesia (Carvalhal) and then attend the Camara (Bombarral) with all documents including Bank info. I am assuming they want me to prove adequate income and I would not be a burden on the Portuguese Social Security system.

Went to Carvalhal Freguesia and they took old documents and said return for new Freguesia residency document in 2 days (this Friday).

After then I will try for the Camara - Bombarral - residency.

I will update this post after then with my experience.

 

[nortada]

Portugal is just a little part of Spain where they speak funny.
??

No too sure Portugal would see it like this.

 

[greeny]

Regarding Portuguese residency - From others I have heard that some areas are more difficult and require proof that you can support yourself. I am aware that a number have achieved it easily with just a marina berth contract.

My experience may be useful for others.

I have Portuguese residency at Nazare. In Portugal there is an equivalent to a local council (town or village called Freguesia and municipal council is called Camara).

When I obtained residency I was buying an apartment in Nazare in 2016.

To obtain this I only produced the renting contract (Seller gave us a rental contract deducted from purchase price to assist getting bank a/c and other paperwork) and passport. I first registered at the Freguesia and got residency issued immediately. Prior to apartment purchase contract date Lawyer advised also getting residency at the Camara. I was unaware of these two residency places/requirements!! At neither was I asked about any financial matters.

We sold the Nazare apartment in December 2019 and been living on the boat in Nazare marina while a new house is being built in Carvalhal (a village slightly inland about 24mls South).

Could not register new house address until it had a external perimeter wall and postbox so left our official postal address as Nazare apartment. New French owners have kindly been keeping our mail for us.

I assumed just hand in old residency documents and they will issue new ones with new address - not so easy!!

However now transferring residency. Tried Utente No first ( effectively NHS registration - the health centre emphasised I must transfer everything ). Health centre were helpful but suggested we should not submit Utente form until we had transferred everything and Finances - NIR No was the most important.

Finances was easy - just phoned for appointment (all government offices are closed in these Covid time and appointment only) and they issued new NIR document with new address

Then went to my new Camara (Bombarral) expecting it to be easy to replace my old documents for new ones.

"No" receptionist said. First I must get residency at the Freguesia (Carvalhal) and then attend the Camara (Bombarral) with all documents including Bank info. I am assuming they want me to prove adequate income and I would not be a burden on the Portuguese Social Security system.

Went to Carvalhal Freguesia and they took old documents and said return for new Freguesia residency document in 2 days (this Friday).

After then I will try for the Camara - Bombarral - residency.

I will update this post after then with my experience.

Interesting but just shows once again how different camaras do things differently. It sounds like they're trying to get you to prove your eligibility for residency again when you've already done that.
I changed my address 2 years ago just like yourself. Finances first, then the residencia at the Camara. Then the Saude Utente.
Finances easy - one visit and done on the day. Camara simple - went in queued up, showed them my new deeds of the house, paid 15 euros, done. Centre de saude done the next morning again no problem. (all pre covid of course).

 

[Sailfree]

Interesting but just shows once again how different camaras do things differently. It sounds like they're trying to get you to prove your eligibility for residency again when you've already done that.
I changed my address 2 years ago just like yourself. Finances first, then the residencia at the Camara. Then the Saude Utente.
Finances easy - one visit and done on the day. Camara simple - went in queued up, showed them my new deeds of the house, paid 15 euros, done. Centre de saude done the next morning again no problem. (all pre covid of course).

in fairness the receptionist did go to speak to someone. It may be that they just gave her the standard requirements not knowing that I already had residency.

Hopefully the new biometric card will cover all these aspects in one hit!

Wife is currently in UK and hating it. Saying cant wait to get back to our home - Portugal!! Wife finds it amazing coming from a relatively safe Covid area in the Silver coast she goes to a dangerous area called UK and has to self isolate for 2wks!!

We just have such a good life here and such friendly people.

 

[nortada]

in fairness the receptionist did go to speak to someone. It may be that they just gave her the standard requirements not knowing that I already had residency.

Hopefully the new biometric card will cover all these aspects in one hit!

Wife is currently in UK and hating it. Saying cant wait to get back to our home - Portugal!! Wife finds it amazing coming from a relatively safe Covid area in the Silver coast she goes to a dangerous area called UK and has to self isolate for 2wks!!

We just have such a good life here and such friendly people.

Yep - high hopes for the biometric card.

See Spain has already issued their's so any idea when we will see them in Portugal?

 

[greeny]

I thought mine was already a biometric one. That's what SEF told me. Issued September 2019. It's got hologram on it and I was told it contains my details, saude number, nif number, social number and fingerprint on it electronically digitised when I was given it. I understand it may be re-issued after brexit to facilitate some "wording" changes but not for biometric reasons. The Portuguese friends of mine say they've been "biometric" for a few years now. Maybe they're changing the system though.

 

[Graham376]

I thought mine was already a biometric one. That's what SEF told me. Issued September 2019. It's got hologram on it and I was told it contains my details, saude number, nif number, social number and fingerprint on it electronically digitised when I was given it. I understand it may be re-issued after brexit to facilitate some "wording" changes but not for biometric reasons. The Portuguese friends of mine say they've been "biometric" for a few years now. Maybe they're changing the system though.

My Portuguese wife hasn't had any notification that her citizen card is to be updated, I think the change is because our current residence cards state "citizen of the European Union", which we cease to be on 31/12.

 

[nortada]

My Portuguese wife hasn't had any notification that her citizen card is to be updated, I think the change is because our current residence cards state "citizen of the European Union", which we cease to be on 31/12.

Exactly, the new biometric card will reflect our new status, Portuguese residents but not citizens of the European Union.

It will be used in conjunction with the Schengen Database to establish our location (In/out the Schengen Zone) and confirm that we are observing the 90/180 day rule.

I understand all current documentation will remain valid until the new biometric permit is issued. Latest word has it that the new cards may not hit the streets until 2021.

 

[25931]

Yep - high hopes for the biometric card.

See Spain has already issued their's so any idea when we will see them in Portugal?

Don't hold your breath. The renewal of my citizens card is booked for the 14 Jan. having expired 12 Aug.

 

[nortada]

Don't hold your breath. The renewal of my citizens card is booked for the 14 Jan. having expired 12 Aug.

Breath not held.

As this documentation will not come into play until when either you leave or enter the Schengen Zone and I do not intend to depart Portugal before next Spring, plenty of time to get it all sorted.

 

[ean_p]

Spanish residency involves giving up the right to UK health care. Not going to happen.

As for staying in Portugal - we'll see. If it is an easier way to enjoy Winter sunshine until Scotland rejoins the EU, then maybe. It will still allow 3 months in the Canaries every now and then.

- W

Why does Spanish Res involve "giving up UK health care" when you seem happy to contemplate Portuguese Res please Webby? Do they not have the same impact?