portsmouth

[brianhumber]

Re: Other possible ideas

The RN is but a rump of its former self but ferry traffic and in particular small boat traffic has exploded. If small boat traffic has grown so much that at peak times people feel the need to expand over into the main channel why not adopt the Continental Solution and have traffic light control. It would mean small boats milling about between the narrows and No4 and to the West of Ballast for 4/5 minutes at a time but then the gap would be exclusively clear for RN/ferries and at other times small boats could use all the channel. Seems to work several times an hour for Le Harve so why not Portsmouth

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[Magic_Sailor]

Not grumpy

No Tome. You're not being grumpy. Bang on I'd say.

It's just one more example of this clamour and headlong pc rush that everything must be safer - whether or not it was unsafe in the first place. To this we could add

1. Pointless road humps - everyboady swerves to get the best line!
2. Pointles new junction layouts (with those little linked bits of concrete) - one near me is bloody lethal!)
3. Pointless traffic lights - roundabouts and motorway slip roads. (they've actually switched off the one's on the Hedge End slip road now - pointlessness piled on pointlessness)
4. Pointless road markings instructing you to turn right IN FRONT of oncoming traffic - when I were a lad the Highway Code told you that this wasn't allowed!

All of which cost us serious amounts.

Hurumph


Magic


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[milltech]

Re: Remit??

I'm with you on this, sorry Dom. I go to sea to avoid the Nanny state, I don't want it chasing me into my last refuge before planting.


<hr width=100% size=1>John
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.allgadgets.co.uk>http://www.allgadgets.co.uk</A>

 

[KevB]

"abuse of the speed limits is continuous" I use Chichester harbour almost every week and have rarely seen anyone speeding, except for the odd fishing boat and dinghy naturally. Although, the speed limit does not apply to non powered craft.

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[tome]

Agreed - I'm based out of Chichester and don't see a general problem. I sail year round and most weekends. The last incident I recall was about 2 years ago when a MoBo came past at high speed. I suggested he slowed down to avoid a fine and he returned a fine one finger salute!

Memorable, but most unusual. Last saw him heading up towards Itchenor where I spotted the harbour patrol, but don't know if he was stopped.

I'd love to hear specifics, but this sort of flawed generalisation does the poster no credit.

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[castaway]

<<I'd love to hear specifics, but this sort of flawed generalisation does the poster no credit.>>

What a pompous relpy!! I was for 10 years a mooring holder in the Thornham Channel and I have seen counless cases of Motor boats speeding, mainly outbound, from Chichester.

I was in there last week and a 36-38ft launch went past me at a estimated 12+ kts kicking up an appropriate wake, when I indicated that he should slow down he displayed 2 palms held outwards which I assumed to mean he was doing 10 kts and thought that this was the speed limit.

Next day there was a Rib doing 20kt + down the Itchenor channel, just N of East Head when I assume he though no one was looking.

So there's a couple of specifics for you..

Possibly its because I sail mainly midweek that I see more boat users pushing the limits than at weekends when its more crowded...

Have you been to Langston lately?

Nick

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[tome]

I certainly didn't mean to be pompous and for that I apologise unreservedly. However, it just isn't my experience. Perhaps it's worse mid week when you are about and there's less activity from the harbour patrols. Weekends are busy, but I rarely see the problems you describe.

I haven't been into Langstone for a while, but can accept that it's worse than Chichester. I know that last time I visited there were PWCs buzzing about at speed all around the entrance, and there's the water-skiing area past Cockle Island.

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[CaptainCava]

Re: Remit??

It's true. I don't use Portsmouth Harbour very often, but I do know the rules.

It's interesting you think the contributions from local businesses and ferry companies are not "our money". So where on earth do you think it comes from?

Perhaps it's best if I stay down my end of the Solent where bureaucracy is not so firmly established........yet!

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[LadyInBed]

Paid my second visit to Portsmouth last w/e, entered keeping well over to the left following a local boat in and met one of those damn ferries (a yellow cat) leaving. I swear he altered course to pass as close as he could to give me the full benefit of his wash. SHMBO wasn’t impressed at all, she is still holding a grudge.

Maybe you should sort out the ferries

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[DepSol]

Re: Remit??

John

I agree with the fact that we dont need a nanny state however in large congestion areas we do need proper control. If you have ever had your boat damaged by a boat speeding carelessly and know the harbor authority is going to do zip about it then you will see why its best to have these areas policed.

The planet is 2/3s water a little policing in a heavily used area is good I think. You can leave Portsmouth and have your fun elsewhere witout being bothered.

<hr width=100% size=1>Dom

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.soltron.co.uk>the website</A>

 

[milltech]

Re: Remit??

erm, but if it was so needed why doesn't the harbour masters launch do it at peak congestion times, or when major arrivals or departures are in progress?


<hr width=100% size=1>John
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.allgadgets.co.uk>http://www.allgadgets.co.uk</A>
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by milltech on 18/05/2004 21:00 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[qhmportsmouth]

Re: Semantics - bureaucrat speak

I am delighted to see this lively debate here and all the comments both positive and negative are welcome as it gives me a good feeling for what an informed group of recreational mariners are thinking and feeling.

The Harbour Patrol was not just dreamt up. Between 2000 and 2002 one of the most exhaustive ever port safety risk assessments was conducted in Portsmouth - over 750 incidents were analysed by a panel of the most experienced and able professional and leisure mariners in the port area and a most expensive firm of consultants crunched the numbers. A list of threat controls was developed showing cost against benefit. At the top of this list for the measure which would make the greatest contribution to harbour safety was the harbour patrol.

The full time QHP supplemented by the VHP is one of the fruits of this study – it (along with the many other measures we have listed in the annual report (on the website at http://www.qhmportsmouth.com/index.php?subject=an_pmsc) show your harbour authority’s commitment to safety. The VHP however goes further – it is funded entirely by contributions from the maritime organisations using the harbour (commercial, military and leisure) and manned by volunteers drawn again from all sectors. The volunteers have a huge wealth of marine experience – each is already highly qualified on power and sail before joining the patrol and then undergoes further training.

I am glad CaptainCava rarely sees anybody breaking the rules – I am already dealing this year with a number of serious incidents including collision (with injury), striking, near misses, engine failures, groundings and so on. When I stop and challenge mariners who are not following the simplest of rules (Small Boat Channel for example) I find their knowledge of local rules shaky and of the COLREGS non existent. I often give talks to yacht clubs and occasionally ask question such as “What do three red lights in a vertical line signify” on average only 5% or so of people know.

The VHP will be giving out leaflets to mariners to help them learn the most important local rules. Subscribe to my News service and you will be notified when the new Small Craft Guide to Portsmouth is published and available on the website for download.

I hope you all find this helpful and spread the message that the VHP is there to help.

Thanks again for the comments – all the best

Tom Herman
QHM


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[whisper]

Re: Semantics - bureaucrat speak

Thanks very much for your continued contributions here and this explanation in particular. I hope that those that "know it all" now accept that perhaps all matelots are not quite so perfect./forums/images/icons/wink.gif

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[tome]

Re: Semantics - bureaucrat speak

QHM

Thanks for the useful perspective.

On reflection I think we should give the VHP initiative a bit of space to see how it goes. If they can confine their activities to friendly proactive assistance then I see no harm and indeed positive benefits. I just hope they don't come roaring alongside in periods of boredom to harangue us with unsolicited advice nor interfere with our freedom to navigate.

I believe that the email version of the LNTMs are a better initiative, but am willing to eat my words.

In answer to your question about the 3 vertical reds, they used to denote a boredello of superior quality but I believe most shore establishments now settle for a single on the basis of European harmonisation.

Regards
Tom

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[tome]

NigelB

You should know that the yellow cats and Fishbourne ferries use the Swashway in and out of Pompey. If you study the transits, you won't be surprised by their course and won't expose your missus to any fear in future. Have a look at the chart and the transit between the shore memorial and the block of flats. If you stay clear, you won't have any problems at all.

Tom

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[jimi]

Re: Semantics - bureaucrat speak

My real concern here is that needless policing by a bunch of bored busybody vigilantes becomes the norm when in fact education is the real answer .. as illustrated by your response. I'd support some form of competence licencing before Soapy Joe is let loose .. partic in busy commercial waters such as Southampton & Portsmouth.

<hr width=100% size=1>I Have The Body Of A God... Buddha

 

[LadyInBed]

A bit of an assumption there old son.

I was past North Bastion approaching the port buoy at about 50º 47.44N 01º 06.73W

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[Sammy]

Re: Semantics - bureaucrat speak

The main problem in Pompey is the speed of the motor boats not the big fellers the private 30' + types and some Sailing boats, mainly out of Port Solent. Passing very close to trots of moorings, with no thought to what thier wash is doing.
In the past couple of weeks there has been some very serious incidents with people tranfering from tenders and also from the Gosport boatyard ferry.
I know the harbour has a ten knot speed limit but at that speed a 35' motor boat creats a very large wash. Passing within about ten feet of a trot of moored boats is very poor seamanship and will/has caused some serious damage.
Is there any possibility that this new patrol will be monotoring this problem as well?
As somebody has already said a few leaflets would probably have been more cost effective in the long run.

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[Twister_Ken]

Unrepentant!

I still maintain that IF Pompey needs - how shall I put this - traffic wardens, then there are ample professionals afloat to do it and the last thing it needs is a bunch of amateurs tooled up and looking for trouble.

BTW, I hope the VHP is empowered to offer friendly words of advice to the pilot launches which come and go from Haslar Creek at something not far removed from full chat.

3 x all round red lights, I believe indicates a vessel too deep to navigate those waters safely, although I suspect that the rule is worded slightly differently!

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.writeforweb.com/twister1>Let's Twist Again</A>

 

[jimi]

Clarify the question

Not surprised only 5% of people got the 3 red lights in a vertical line wrong as it has two possible meaninings depending on whether it is on a vessel underway or whether it is part of port traffic control

<hr width=100% size=1>I Have The Body Of A God... Buddha