Portland & The Shambles

[ss2016]

Lots of firsts for me. At the end of April I am picking up a new 5 ton 31' mobo in the Solent and taking it to Falmouth. The 'firsts' are that having owned sailing boats this is the first mobo. (Dictated by my age!) I have never travelled this route before inshore and have no experience of Portland Bill. Just lots of reading.
Depending on the weather we would like to pass Portland Bill on the last day of April. Spring tides! Ideally we would like to go Weymouth to say Lyme Regis.

So my questions are these:
1. We can plan to be at the Bill at the turn of the tide but would this ensure the lobster pot buoys are on the surface in the inside passage? If not we won't go this way. Relying on a rope cutter in a mobo is not me.
2. If coming from Weymouth and we decide NOT to take the inside passage can we head south between the Bill and the Shambles or does the race 'close' this? Also, is that also sub surface lobster pot buoys territory.
3. I am increasingly feeling perhaps it's best to overnight around Swanage and then head 5+ miles off the Bill and just not get involved, but unless it's calm enough to use the power, it's a long way to Teignmouth/Dartmouth etc. Am I being too cautious?
4. If we do the offshore route how far off the Shambles typically?

Clearly it all depends on the weather. Any constructive thoughts would be very welcome. Thanks!

 

[ontheplane]

You don't say what your 5 ton 31' boat is likely to cruise at - however you may still have a sailing head on.

There is nothing wrong with using the tides at all, but they do affect you much less in a planing Mobo than a 5knt yacht.

So whilst I can't answer the specific questions you ask, if you'll be making 22kts and are worried about the pots, you could always leave it a bit later into the tide, let it fall a little, as I suspect you'll still make your overnight stop well before the tide turns the other way on you.

 

[ss2016]

Thanks for your reply. Yes, I still have a sailing head on. At displacement speed 8Kt is reasonable. If its calm enough the fuel burn is not so much different at 18 to 30Kt. After that it gets very hungry. 8 to 18Kt is not good either. So in weather that allows me to plane, the journey is fast and easy as I said, but my planning is assuming its not. I have little idea of how it handles rough water at 18+ Knts as yet.
PS I see you are in Bristol. I grew up sailing at Clevedon.

 

[ontheplane]

Nice - I like Clevedon.

If you are going in heavy weather, and sticking to about 7-8knt then yes, tides will be a big factor. I think you would just have to keep well clear of the pot areas in Portland, but they are often very badly marked.

I hope someone be along soon with better local knowledge for you. Also a factor is if you are doing 5knt then you will hit markers and stuff, but at 18-20 knt, the boat is sat up on top of the water, and will push a lot of water to the side, so you are unlikely (please note - unlikely not impossible) to hit a pot marker, although if a rope is floating on top, that's a deffo possibility.

 

[dustywings]

We do this trip often and usually do it in two legs, Solent to Dartmouth then Dartmouth to Falmouth. This then allows you to give the Bill a wide berth plus we really like Dartmouth.
If travelling at displacement speeds then 2/3 knots of tide is a real benefit.
Study the tidal flows along the way and use them as you would on a sailing boat!

 

[Richard.C]

Similar to Dusty we have done Lymington to Brixham a couple of times now and just stay well off Portland Bill, I normally allow 5 hrs for the trip and plan to cruise around 20-22 knots.

 

[burgundyben]

I've done Yarmouth to Dartmouth many times, always inshore at Portland.

I would suggest passage plan to always be in favourable tide.

 

[Switch]

You really want wind and tide together crossing Lyme Bay. I always go inshore round the Bill and have never had a problem.

 

[Restoration man]

Hi I’ve always gone far out from the bill when going from the Solent to Dartmouth but I’ve always gone inshore on the way back as I like a stop Weymouth , what boat have you got ??? My guess is Storebro biscay 31 ??? Lot of ex sailors seem to buy them

 

[Montemar]

Check out this man: Sailing with Monty Mariner

 

[Solent Sailor]

I've done the inside and offshore passage countless times in all sorts of boats from a 16 foot dinghy upwards. The key is stay really close inshore (they used to say that if you couldn't throw a tin of paint onto the rocks, you weren't close enough) or stay well offshore. I've also fished in the race itself many times, and it can be horrendous, even in otherwise calm conditions.

Without wishing to take the pleasure of passage planning from you (but some mental exercise for me) on the 30 April 2021, HW Portland is 0951 (BST). 2 days after Springs (which is about the 2nd largest spring tide of the year). The key checkpoint is what the tide is doing at the tip of Portland - the tide down the E side is neither here nor there. Assuming you make 12 kts, getting to the tip will take 3/4 hour allowing for exiting harbour. Accordingly, the tide is slack(ish) at the Bill from 1230 onwards although the inshore race (generally not too troublesome in my experience) builds for a couple of hours following that one. I'd be aiming to set off shortly after noon. If the water kicks up rough, head slightly offshore - the race is either inshore or offshore, never both. This gives you plenty of time to cross the bay before dark with the full benefit of the ebb tide.

In rougher conditions or if I wanted to clear the Shambles, I'd set off no earlier, benefit from the remnants of the inshore S tide, head for the E Shambles cardinal, hang a right behind the bank aiming for a point 5NM off the Bill and would be there (at 12kts) around 1315/1330. when the ebb tide is not yet quite established.

It's not a day for an early departure - main flood tide will be foul from 0720 to 1220 (approx).

Specifically regarding the Shambles - if you're in good sailing conditions (say F4 or less) then I really wouldn't worry about it in the slightest. There may be a small standing wave or two, but its over in minutes. In those conditions, and on a spring tide in April, there will be plenty of local fishing boats on there targeting the turbot and brill. Saw quite a large coaster cross it whilst we were fishing a couple of years back and it must have nearly touched though - not sure how it didn't. You'll be fine in a Mobo though.

 

[powerskipper]

Lots of firsts for me. At the end of April I am picking up a new 5 ton 31' mobo in the Solent and taking it to Falmouth. The 'firsts' are that having owned sailing boats this is the first mobo. (Dictated by my age!) I have never travelled this route before inshore and have no experience of Portland Bill. Just lots of reading.
Depending on the weather we would like to pass Portland Bill on the last day of April. Spring tides! Ideally we would like to go Weymouth to say

Lyme Regis.

So my questions are these:
1. We can plan to be at the Bill at the turn of the tide but would this ensure the lobster pot buoys are on the surface in the inside passage? If not we won't go this way. Relying on a rope cutter in a mobo is not me.

Yes you can, inshore is fine, keep an eye on wind for a few day before as you can get some good swells there . you need to check for Lulworth cove firing range as they will have you running offshore about 3 to 5 miles if active. catch they you at St Albans and from there you run along until almost at Weymouth.


2. If coming from Weymouth and we decide NOT to take the inside passage can we head south between the Bill and the Shambles or does the race 'close' this? Also, is that also sub surface lobster pot buoys territory.

Portland bill has its own tidal atlas as the race moves depending on what hour it is.

3. I am increasingly feeling perhaps it's best to overnight around Swanage and then head 5+ miles off the Bill and just not get involved, but unless it's calm enough to use the power, it's a long way to Teignmouth/Dartmouth

If you overnight in Weymouth, ( what I normally do when doing this run.) then you can make it to either Plymouth ( coffee break behind breakwater ) or strait to Falmouth


4. If we do the offshore route how far off the Shambles typically? look at atlas where race ends and when running it just look for the flat bits.

Clearly it all depends on the weather. Any constructive thoughts would be very welcome. Thanks!

 

[ss2016]

Thanks all for your replies. Very helpful, though no one picked up on the lobster pots which are my biggest concern. (Without sails I feel vulnerable as a newby to mobos.) A concern particularly, on the day in question, because as Solent Sailor said it's one of their biggest tides of the year and I gather the markers are not polite enough to stay visible. (And no, Solent Sailor, you haven't taken the fun away from passage planning, you have added to my thinking with local knowledge!)
As I said at the start it will all depend on the weather, and to a lesser extent the Lulworth range. If it's practical to go in there we would like to take a night stop, if not we might just head out to sea and go Studland Dartmouth. Plan for all eventualities! The Dartmouth comment was helpful.
Restoration man, it's a Sargo 31.
Powerskipper, thanks for your extensive comments also. If you really look like that feel free to raft up alongside! I won't be putting the fenders out in expectation though.