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Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
It sounds a bit strange but this is what I mean
Wind over tide = wind with tide
Wind against tide = wind against tide
Wind over tide = wind with tide
Wind against tide = wind against tide
portland race in a mobo
- Thread starter Jobs_a_ good_ un
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hlb
RIP
Lets make no mistake about it. Overfalls can be seriously bad. I've thort many of times, well it's only F4 it's ok not to bother looking at wind or tide and just blam round Start point. Once or twice, maybe more. I've been hit by quite horendous conditions. Never forget going round from Plymouth to Dartmouth in quite calm conditions. Took the short cut round Start Point and met seas far higher than the fly bridge, but steep, like straight up!! Well ok we mosied over them but stopping at Dartmouth. The prop shaft fell off!! Felt a bit sick then!! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
gcwhite
New member
Yes
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Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
How do you know its going to be 16 knots? Whatever, 16 knots is the top of a F4 and it will be right on the nose for 60 miles so irrespective of Portland Bill you're going to have a lumpy ride in anything smaller than 50' IMHO, better to plan a hop to Weymouth and wait for lighter winds or winds with N or E in them
BrendanS
Well-known member
I don't have a chart to hand, but another reason for not going out 4 miles, depending which way you go, is that there is a bleeding big bank out there, which you don't want to mess with. You can see rollers off it, even in benign conditions. Which is one of the best reasons for going inshore round the headland from Weymouth.
gcwhite
New member
From Poole I am 2.5 miles S of the Shambles bank. The wind is based on the current forecast which will, no doubt, change before the trip.
BrendanS
Well-known member
Nautical terminology means 'wind over tide' = increasing sea conditions, as wind blows over tide. Contra indicative to most peoples perception, and much debated in several threads here over the years, but most seafaring people know what it means, so it hangs on in there.
gcwhite
New member
Good advice. I have redrawn my route 10 NM off. Thank you.
hlb
RIP
Thank you Brendan. Thort I was right but so many excrement peeps on here seem to get it wrong. So it confuses!! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
BrendanS
Well-known member
Overfalls can catch you out. Left White Cliff Bay a few years back (SE Isle of Wight), and went back to Lymington round the Iow via the south. Kept looking left towards France, in the flat sea and no wind, and thinking 'If only I had my passport, Hour and half there, refuel, and back again'
So busy looking left, wasn't paying attention, then went into standing waves around St Catherines point on southern Iow. Took me 10 minutes of wet motoring at displacement speed to get out again, and yet only a few hundred feet away, everything looked like a mill pond. Flat calm.
Learnt my lesson, and planned going around races or overfalls in future.
So busy looking left, wasn't paying attention, then went into standing waves around St Catherines point on southern Iow. Took me 10 minutes of wet motoring at displacement speed to get out again, and yet only a few hundred feet away, everything looked like a mill pond. Flat calm.
Learnt my lesson, and planned going around races or overfalls in future.
BrendanS
Well-known member
It would work fine if only everyone worked to the same terms. One of the reasons peeps get so upset on these forums, if people don't bother to learn the terms?
Nautical terminology is quite precise, and if you learn it, you will understand another person using those terms, same as every other sea going person. The difference between sheets, lines, wave height etc, etc.
People in other areas learn the terminology that applies, but many newcomers to boating are unaware of the subtle differences in the terminology, so confusion abounds?
Nautical terminology is quite precise, and if you learn it, you will understand another person using those terms, same as every other sea going person. The difference between sheets, lines, wave height etc, etc.
People in other areas learn the terminology that applies, but many newcomers to boating are unaware of the subtle differences in the terminology, so confusion abounds?
BrendanS
Well-known member
Gonna hafta disagree. F4 to F6 across Lyme Bay can be quite pleasant. Depends on wind direction. Get it wrong and it's [censored], no matter the boat size
whisper
New member
I've always thought that wind over tide = going the same way. Wind against is the opposite phrase. Trust you to be different /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
jimi
Well-known member
Actually must disagree yet again but Portland is shorter and sharper the inshore route is OK and relatively wide. St A is wider longer and the inshore is very narrow and a lot closer to the shore, I actually rate St A as worse than Portland!!
BrendanS
Well-known member
Jimi
In as saily boat, you probly only get there a few times a year at most. On a fast power boat, it's a few hours away, and while leading a few club trips there, also do it as a day trip. Which means you get to try it in all sorts of wind conditions and tide conditions.....that a raggie would never try, for obvioius reasons.
Just go up onto the cliffs at St Albans at any time of day, and stay there for a few hours (next to the volunteer place) and watch the race. You can see the overfalls, and the passage inshore. As also how far the overfalls extend out wards.
Going to Portland head doesn't give you the same overview, but if you think Portland is less difficult to a boater, then you haven't experienced the worst it can throw. Portland inshore passage is much narrower. Portland overfalls are far worse than St Albans. If you want to disagree, just go take a look in less than marginal conditions. I know you know this, you are just argueing to move things along. This is one time I'm going to disagree upfront, because it's an area where new boaters need to know limits, and it no where to be caught out.
You might power through St Albans with a bit of damage if you get tide and wind wrong if you are lucky. You won't be so lucky if you decide to go through Portland at same state of tide and wind.
In as saily boat, you probly only get there a few times a year at most. On a fast power boat, it's a few hours away, and while leading a few club trips there, also do it as a day trip. Which means you get to try it in all sorts of wind conditions and tide conditions.....that a raggie would never try, for obvioius reasons.
Just go up onto the cliffs at St Albans at any time of day, and stay there for a few hours (next to the volunteer place) and watch the race. You can see the overfalls, and the passage inshore. As also how far the overfalls extend out wards.
Going to Portland head doesn't give you the same overview, but if you think Portland is less difficult to a boater, then you haven't experienced the worst it can throw. Portland inshore passage is much narrower. Portland overfalls are far worse than St Albans. If you want to disagree, just go take a look in less than marginal conditions. I know you know this, you are just argueing to move things along. This is one time I'm going to disagree upfront, because it's an area where new boaters need to know limits, and it no where to be caught out.
You might power through St Albans with a bit of damage if you get tide and wind wrong if you are lucky. You won't be so lucky if you decide to go through Portland at same state of tide and wind.
BrendanS
Well-known member
Just watching how many peeps have read posts,suggests most haven't read this.
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Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
I believe you're right and that is the accepted termonology
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Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
He said South Westerly. Are you really saying that going across Lyme Bay to Torquay straight into a SW 4-6 is 'pleasant'???
F4-6 up your backside can be enjoyable in the right kind of boat but not head into it
F4-6 up your backside can be enjoyable in the right kind of boat but not head into it
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Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Sorry, I believe your terminology is wrong. Wind over tide is wind with tide NOT against tide and whilst you can get modest waves at at St Albans (and Durlston) and Portland when conditions are calm, these waves are caused by movement of water due to tides. If you get tide against wind the effect is much greater and it is simply wrong to state that wind over or wind against is irrelevant. Its one of the most important considerations when planning a passage through these areas
whisper
New member
Blimey, you're a brave man Mike. Brendan and hlb are heavyweights "on here" you know. At least one of them is the same "off here" as well /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I've just done a search and it suggests - very strongly, nay conclusively - that their nomenclature is right and we are wrong. In my case perhaps I should add "again" /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
I've just done a search and it suggests - very strongly, nay conclusively - that their nomenclature is right and we are wrong. In my case perhaps I should add "again" /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif